Barry Amundsen (27 July 2011)
"For Robert Belanger and Sonja Steyn"

Hi Robert Belanger and Sonja Steyn,
I am confused as to each of your positions on this question of whether all Christians will be raptured at once or could there be a partial first etc.
Robert, you seem to be saying both:
As explained in my previous message, a separation of Christians on the basis of faithfulness occurs in Christ's presence alone at the judgment seat. Scripture says nothing of a separation of this nature occurring at the time of the rapture.

All Christians will appear in Christ's presence to be judged in this manner...
...Revelation presents the rapture as both all-inclusive and pre-Tribulational. All Christians will be removed together, at the same time; and this will occur before the Tribulation. This is what Scripture has to say. What man says about it is immaterial for Scripture is the source we have been given for truth.

"For we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that EVERYONE may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." II Cor. 5:10
Here, you are saying that there will be one rapture for everyone and then the separation happens at the judgment seat, correct? But then you post again with what sounds like the opposite position:

I agree with Eliane and Marilyn regarding the probability of there being two raptures instead of one, while still holding that there will be only one time of judgment at the Judgment Seat of Christ for all Christians.

Christians could be raptured in two phases...

...Many Christians today believe that their spiritual salvation obtained by accepting Jesus' offer of salvation (Rom. 10:9-10, Acts 16:31) will make them ready for the first rapture described in 1 Thess. 4:16 at the trump of God. But, in the opinion of many who I consider mature Christians, they may be too immature in their faith, or backslidden, to be ready except for the Main Harvest rapture described in 1 Cor. 15:52.

These Christians are too immature in Christ and are in fact not prepared for the first fruits rapture. Growing cannot take place over night; it takes time. When the midnight cry comes it will be too late. Like Elisha at the rapture of Elijah, they will be left behind, together with unbelievers to face the first three and half years of the Tribulation for their spiritual maturation through Spirit-inspired works...


Then, Sonja, I am not sure which side you are defending. My comment that you quote refers to the position in the pdf book that claims basically that most Christians fail to understand the nature of their salvation and that Christ provided only for our "spirit" to be saved but our "soul" salvation is up to us to accomplish through our own works after we are spirit saved etc. I was commenting that I find the defense of this position to be very difficult to follow and that the weeping and gnashing of teeth etc I believe happens at the rapture when many are left behind rather than at the judgment seat of Christ when many according to this book will be cast into outer darkness for failing to have good enough works etc.


I just think it all comes down to our position in Christ. If you are in Christ even if for one day, you are saved body, soul and spirit. But if you leave faith in Christ and go after any other path seeking to gain life through one of Satan's tricky deceptions, (including trying to be good enough by your own performance of the law) then you have left faith in Christ and done what Paul got after the Galatians for doing:


Galatians 3

 1.  O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
 2.  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
 3.  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Romans and Hebrews also have much to say about this; that it is possible to make shipwreck of faith in Christ and that this would negate the blood and cross of Christ for the individual who turns aside from his first confidence in Jesus finished work. To suggest that once someone believes in Jesus' finished work he is saved (in spirit) and can never lose that position ("spirit salvation") but must now perform works to save his soul, is, in my opinion, so far from what Paul and the New Testament are teaching as to be a new religion entirely. The thief on the cross is saved though he had no opportunity to perform works to save his "soul" according to this other scheme. Do you really think Jesus would say to him, This day you will be with me in paradise, but as soon as the judgment seat of Christ happens, I'll have to banish you to outer darkness because, well you never performed enough to get your miserable soul saved too? Christ is our life and to leave from Christ is death.
The real question then is what it always has been: Do you trust in Christ or not? If you do then let Him be Lord over you and trust Him with your life, and if not then trust in something else to be better for you than Jesus is and all the best to you because you will not be raptured! Cannot serve two masters. This is all the New Testament (and the Old too for that matter) is saying.