Arlene (7 July 2005)
"TO MARILYN AGEE"
TO MARILYN AGEEHello Marilyn and Doves,,,
Re: Rev. chapter 1I had said previously that John was on the Isle of Patmos, "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day",,,,,and that this scene was on earth, before John was caught up to heaven. John sees Jesus in the Spirit and falls at His feet "as dead". I don't think when we arrive in heaven that we will fall at His feet "as dead", but more like with great praise. Marilyn says:
"the Preview of the Rapture. In it, John was on Patmos, which means mortal. Then when he heard Christ's voice like a trumpet, he was suddenly in the spirit and in Heaven. Since Christ does not return to Earth until the Second Advent, He was in Heaven with the 7 churches around him in the Preview of the Rapture."
But Paul saw Christ while He was on earth, and also fell down, those around him not knowing what was going on. Also Peter had his vision and the voice of God, while he was on the earth, the same as with Zechariah and many of the prophets who "were in the Spirit" when they received their revelations... So I think also John saw Christ taking up His role of judge, while John was still on earth, prior to the "come up hither", which was "after this". The letters the Lord gave to the churches for John to send to the churches, were warnings to the churches to get their acts together, before, He states, "I will come upon you as a thief in the night and you SHALL NOT (future) know the hour.....etc.".
For, it is "AFTER THIS" that John was caught up to heaven when the door was opened "in heaven" for him to respond to the "come up hither". see:Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.Now, John is indeed in heaven, after his vision of the warnings to the churches, and where we will be to witness Christ, the slain lamb, being found worthy to open the scroll (title deed) of redemption. I think John's vision of Christ amongst the candlesticks (churches) then took place while John was on the earth......taking the dictation which would be sent to the churches in preparation for their becoming overcomers and in particular the last four churches, portions of which would see the actual rapture day.
Grace, and peace, and may He give us the "word of His patience" until then.....
Your sister Arlene---
Hi:> > I had said previously that John was on the Isle of Patmos, "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day",,,,,and that this scene was on earth, before John was caught up to heaven. John sees Jesus in the Spirit and falls at His feet "as dead". I don't think when we arrive in heaven that we will fall at His feet "as dead", but more like with great praise."The Revelation of Jesus Christ" is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3 and 22:10). Jesus signs off saying, "Surely I come quickly." He comes quickly at the Rapture, and we rise up to meet him in the air. Rev. 2:5 says, "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent." Rev. 3:11 says, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown."Maybe the Rapture will be just ten days after Jesus' assessment of the status of the churches. Rev. 2:10,11 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation TEN DAYS: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". This way, "at hand" in Rev. 1:3 and 22:10 would indicate a ten-day period. This would put the Preview of the Rapture ten days before the actual Rapture.In the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1, John was on Patmos, which means "mortal" (i.e., like us, he was in his mortal body on Earth). Then suddenly, he BECAME in the Spirit in Heaven. Rev. 1:10 (KJV) says, "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" (i.e., on the first of the two Days of the Son of Man (Luke 17:22, 26).The word "ginomai," translated "was", should be translated "became," as in the margin. Of ginomai, Strong's says, "A prolonged and middle form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen" -erate), that is, (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literally, figuratively, intensively, etc.): - arise be assembled...be taken". John was caused to be in the Spirit. There was a change. Figuratively, he did arise. He was taken to be assembled with the other church saints in Heaven.Jesus never appeared like that on Earth. "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire" (Rev. 1:14). The only other time we see this is in Dan. 7:9. It says, "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Jesus is both the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last.You can see this in other versions.(Darby): "I became in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a great voice as of a trumpet".(LITV)): "I came to be in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet".(ALT): "I came to be in spirit [or, in [the] Spirit] on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a great voice, like a trumpet-blast".(ISV)): "I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of the Lord, when I heard a loud voice behind me like a trumpet".
We also find "ginomai" used in Rev. 4:2. Darby translated it as "Immediately I became in the Spirit; and behold, a throne stood in the heaven".
The Rapture that is pictured in the Preview actually takes place in Rev. 4:1,2, after which, John and the 23 other elders that are in Heaven "FELL DOWN BEFORE THE LAMB" (Rev. 5:8). The Preview has its facts straight.
Since Jesus will not return to Earth until the Second Advent, he has to be in Heaven in Rev. 1:13-16. At the Rapture, we will rise to meet him in the air.
> > I think also John saw Christ taking up His role of judge, while John was still on earth, prior to the "come up hither", which was "after this". The letters the Lord gave to the churches for John to send to the churches, were warnings to the churches to get their acts together, before, He states, "I will come upon you as a thief in the night and you SHALL NOT (future) know the hour.....etc.".
For, it is "AFTER THIS" that John was caught up to heaven when the door was opened "in heaven" for him to respond to the "come up hither". see:> > Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.The whole book is arranged according to Rev 1:19,20. Following the Preview, Jesus said, "Write the things which thou hast seen (i.e., the status of the churches in Asia), and the things which are (at the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Rapture); The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches." Only at the Rapture would we see the seven star performers of the churches in Christ's hand. That is when he snatches them up.
In Rev. 4:1, the voice of Jesus is "as it were of a TRUMPET talking." In the Preview in Rev. 1:10, John heard the same trumpet voice. He said that he "heard behind me a great voice, AS OF A TRUMPET." Rev. 4:1 upholds this, saying "the FIRST VOICE which I heard (i.e., heard both in the Preview in Rev. 1:10 and in 4:1) was AS IT WERE OF A TRUMPET talking with me; which said, Come up hither". Both the trumpet voice in Rev. 1:10 and 4:1 is Christ's voice at the first trump (i.e., at the first Rapture). The second Rapture is at the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:51,52).
We are given details in the Preview in Rev. 1 that are not repeated in Rev. 4 and 5. In Rev. 1:10,11, Christ's "VOICE, AS OF A TRUMPET" says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last." He is both YHWH King of Israel and YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer (Isa. 44:6).
Agape, Marilyn Agee