Laurie Hane (5 Jan 2011)
"Patty Hayes re Matt: 25"


Hi Patty,
   I found your letter to me yesterday interesting.  I see that you have not understood me when I was speaking  in reference to the spirit and to the soul.  They are not interchangeable or synonymous, they are two distinct entities.  Unless you understand that, what I have written to you will never make sense. nor would I expect it to.  There are some things I would wish to address however and because of that, I would like to reiterate what you wrote me:
 
You wrote:
In regarding the Virgins, you remember I pointed out in the Greek, the Lord had no knowledge of who the 5 foolish were, no relational knowledge and yet the passages pointed out prior to that is that the Believer cannot lose their salvation.  The true Christian is what....SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. 
 
What you are saying is that this passage would teach that the born from above Christian could lose their salvation or not really have a real birth from above salvation.  That is in contradiction to much of Scripture. 
 
Just for the record I would like to point out to you and anyone else who knows of me here at 5 - doves, I am an adamant supporter of NEVER loosing ones spiritual salvation.  As I stated in my letter to you, I place my faith in all of those promises you stated in your previous letter.  No one can pluck us out of the Fathers hand in relationship to our spirit which is made alive at the point of spiritual salvation.  Christ died to pay  the price necessary so that our spirits could be redeemed back to God.  This salvation is brought to us by the Spirit by the direction of God and it is by the faith of Christ that enters us that allows us to have the faith to believe. (I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ liveth in me, and the life that I now live, I live BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me and gave himself for me.)
 
Next as far as Matt. being written just for the Jews because the church wasn't in view when Christ spoke the parables in Matt. 25,   I beg to differ
 
However,  the whole of the dialogue in its entirety is Jesus is teaching the disciples regarding what would happen to the Temple and Israel in the course of Israel's history.  He starts talking in Matt 24 and concludes talking the last verse of Matt 25 answering the disciples' questions.  He does not start, stop and restart again.  He gives a full discourse to them in one setting.
 
The Church was not birthed yet nor the disciples aware of the Church being borned.  They were still thinking national Israel.
 
If you go back to Matt. 12 we have the dialogue where the heads of Israel (Pharisee's and Sadducees) did the unpardonable sin, they ascribed to Satan the works of the Holy Spirit and Christ's response to it was in vs 32
 
   And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, NEITHER IN  THIS AGE, NEITHER IN THE AGE TO COME.
 
The degree of judgment that came to Israel via their heads of state was later stated in Matt.21:43 where it states  "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bring forth the fruits of it. "  Then later in Matt. 23:13 Christ identifies the rulers which caused this to happen  "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!  For ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for ye neither go in yourselves, neither permit them that are entering to go in."  The promises given to Abraham concerning the heavenly Kingdom was taken from Israel and brought to a new entity being created (a nation) because they would be able to accept it whereas Israel had not been ready to accept what Christ had come to offer. Here is the first mention of something new which we later learned was the church.  It was spoken of in the presence of the disciples and Christ included it's presence when speaking in parables.  I am sorry if you don't see this and I really don't feel the need to go into this further, but will if you wish.
 
You also stated:
We just cannot pull out of context to create another pretext.  I gave the Greek so that you can see that when the Lord told those 5 foolish virgins he never knew them, the Greek word he used is a "never established relationship."   It is clear then to me that this is not referring to a loss of something you had and now lost.  He says he never knew them.
 
I agree that Christ is speaking of never having established a relationship with these individuals in regards to what is in view.  We are speaking of the kingdom of Heaven, but not just that.  It is specific and it is in reference to the Bride of Christ and the marriage supper of the lamb.  Those foolish virgins did not have the proper relationship with Christ that would allow him to say he KNEW them in regards to being allowed into the marriage supper of the lamb.  Will all Christians attend, evidently not because not all of those who are in the Kingdom of heaven - which includes the foolish virgins- are allowed entry.  They are allowed to see the site, see the door, talk to the doorman, but no entry.  In Matt. 22 talks of  "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king, who made a marriage for his son,...."  then vs 11 -14 
    "And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man who had not on a wedding garment. and he saith unto him.  Friend, how camest thou in here not having a wedding garment?  And he was speechless.  Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth..  For many are called but few are chosen."
 
There is no denying that this person is at the marriage supper, but this person does not have on the proper wedding attire.  Rev 19  shedds further light on this subject for you see the Bride is importantly clothed in her righteous acts (which can only be the acts of the Holy Spirit through her), not just clothed in the righteousness of Christ which a person is clothed with at the point of spiritual salvation.....  This person is called friend by the King (he wasn't called an enemy)  and it is also important to note that he wasn't caste out for any other reason than not having the proper attire.  
 
I also want to be quick to point out that outer darkness is simply on the outside of where all the important things are taking place, the marriage supper of the lamb.    Why there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth would be the same reason Esau wept when he  forfeited the rights of the first born to his brother because of his callus attitude towards his inheritance had caused him to live his life in such a way that he had offered it to his brother for a bowl of food.  There will be Christians that assume that just because they bear the name Christian, that they are automatically in line to receive the rights of the bride of Christ.  That will cause them to live with a callousness toward the inheritance out ahead and they will never receive the reward because they didn't realize that it could be forfeited or lost.  Paul pushed for the prize that was out ahead of him, he thought of it like he was running a race and not all receive the prize.   That is what the parable of the virgins is talking about, being aware, allowing the word to have its work in you by constantly renewing your minds in the scripture (Rm 12), letting the word divide soul and spirit so the intents of the heart are laid bare and we can deal with the reality of a fallen spirit fighting with a renewed spirit within us.  It is a challenge, it is a battle, and thankgoodness it is God that has promised that He will finish the work in us.  We must come willingly, but he will do the work.  It is then that the spirit can do a work through us as we relinquish our soulish rights to the rights of the spirit within us.
 
Sorry this got so long.  This may or may not make any impact on you.  I know that you are a studier of scripture as I am and I know that along the way I have had to review and change what I thought I KNEW.  I Praise the name of the Lord that he is never done with us and promises to reach each of us where we are at and go from there.  We are probably coming at things from 3 different angles and that's okay, if it causes me to head back to the scriptures, or causes you to research what you believe and if neither of us change....that's okay too, because God's word is alive and is life giving.  He will do the work necessary in each of our lives.  Blessing on you Patty.      Laurie