Amy VanGerpen (28 Jan 2011)
"RE: Suzi and the Seals"

 
Suzi you said:
 
"When the Wrath of God comes down on the world, He will make sure all his Children are out of harm's way. It will be undeniable that HE is the one putting the 'smack down' (as my kid would say) on those who have rejected Him."
 
I believe that you nailed it on the head.  It will be God doing the punishing.  We see that Jesus Himself, breaks each Seal, with a resulting Judgment on Earth.  This is why I believe the Chuch will not be here to see any of the Seal Judgments:

Revelation 6

First Seal: The Conqueror
 1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
Second Seal: Conflict on Earth
3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
 
Third Seal: Scarcity on Earth
   
5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
Fourth Seal: Widespread Death on Earth
7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
 
Fifth Seal: The Cry of the Martyrs
 
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Sixth Seal: Cosmic Disturbances
12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”
 
Maranatha!
Amy Van Gerpen
www.trackingbibleprophecy.org
 


 
Suzi (27 Jan 2011)
"To Nando"

I am by not, by any stretch of the imagination an expert, even as a layperson, I am just starting to learn about End Times events and sequences. But I wonder, when you said:

"I can not see the first four seals happening and killing one fourth of the people on the earth and the church going through it and not calling this the wrath of God."

Haven't we, as humankind, seen massive death of humans throughout history that was not 'the wrath of God', but rather the result of the fact that we live in a fallen world?

I don't know the numbers, but, what would the world population have been during the years of the 'Black Death' in Europe have been? That was not the 'wrath of God', but it was a very large portion of people dying off.

Throughout history, we've had the murder/slaughter of huge numbers of people at the hands of dictators, mad men and disease. Today, we kill our own via abortion to the tune of nearly 4000 per day in America alone! Add those numbers to other disease, accident, wars and natural disasters. I wonder how it works out percentage-wise. How many people would have to die before it was considered God's "Wrath" as opposed to "God's hand of protection being removed"?

I am a simple person, I can see that 'bad things happen to good people' and not see 'God's Wrath', but just the fact that we live in a fallen world. I have always held the belief that we will experience 'tribulation'...it's happening right now, every day. Some Christian mother somewhere has just learned her child had cancer...that is not God's Wrath. A bus load of kids on the way to Church Camp gets wiped out by a drunk driver...someone dies from second hand smoke induced lung disease...a village gets washed away by a tsunami, including the innocent babies. No, I think when God's Wrath shows up, it is not like a child falling and skinning their knee...but Daddy showing up with a switch to punish a disobedient child.

I don't know exactly where the 'Rapture' falls in the series of events, but I KNOW that the Church will be outta here before the 'punishments' commence. We can be here and live through the results of the world turning their back on the Lord, that is just the result in living in a space surrounded by those who've denied God. Being in a building that a God-hating person bombs is not a punishment from God on that innocent person...it is the result of a disobedient person exercising Free Will.

When the Wrath of God comes down on the world, He will make sure all his Children are out of harm's way. It will be undeniable that HE is the one putting the 'smack down' (as my kid would say) on those who have rejected Him.

So, I think it may be possible for the world to lose 1/4 it's population by it's own design, and that still not be the active 'wrath' of God. Especially considering that there are active plans by the richest of the rich to lower the population themselves.

Just my opinion.

Blessings~

Suzi