Thank you John!
"Re: Gino (
23 Feb 2013) "Looking for someone who knows they are not worthy..."
I used to be on the fence regarding when the trib was, pre or mid (never post), also used to be concerned about loss of salvation or OSAS. Scripture can be confusing in regards to understanding the difference between rapture is and salvation. Me thinks this is why so many different denomations and people debate the above.
At this writing here is what I think and leave myself open for clearer understanding.
The way I understand things now, salvation is an eternal gift for believers and the newbie’s who come to Christ. Believers are saved from eternal damnation, even carnal/backsliders WHO BELIEVE in Christ are saved from the eternal lake of fire.
Yes, a person can lose their salvation, but it’s by choice, not by screwing up…none of us are perfect nor can we ever be in this current world. Scripture tells us one can WALK AWAY from the faith: Mark and Matt “The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born." (Yes, Judas was involved here, but it applies to all man walking away from Jesus).
1Timothy 4, Verse 1 says, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Point: Salvation by Grace for the believer, rewards/crowns by works
OK, that’s another topic but wanted to clarify for you why I am on this track about a “partial Rapture”.
Rapture is a reward, a crown for those faithfully following and watching for the Lord’s return. Backslidden and carnal Christians are not looking forward to the Lord’s return, they are too “in love” with the things of this world, imho.
How many times have we said to a believer; “Time is short, the Lord is coming soon”, only to get a reply; “I hope not now, my fist grandbaby is on the way”, Not now, we’re about to buy a new boat”, “Hope it’s after the playoff’s”, etc.
Me thinks, if a person doesn’t want to go now (rapture), they won’t go and will be left. Luke Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man." Matt 24:42 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.” Both verses (and others) are talking to believers and about the last days. If salvation was an automatic “rapture”, why bother with the above wording, why not something like; “Be excited for when the Lord comes for all you believers WILL be caught up in the air with the Lord”.
These verses and others, are telling the saved, to be faithful (not of this world) Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: "Come out of her,(the world/don’t be worldly) my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues.
This is also why I think there will be so many “saints” (Christians) being martyred/targeted during the tribulation, that many unfaithful will be left.
Yes, people will be saved during the trib, but think about today, when things are not very bad and people won’t turn to Christ. Gosh, during the trib it’s going to be super miserable to be a Christian and you can’t buy, sell, trade, work, get gas, food, have a place to live (can’t pay rent/mortgage) with out taking the mark.
That won’t drive the unsaved people to Christ very easy, but to the “world” where they can eat. It makes sense that carnal/backslidden are there and now take Christ seriously because they “know what just happened and what is to come”.
The crown of righteousness: 2 Tim. 4:8. To those who love the appearing of Christ, who anxiously wait and look forward to the day when He will return for His saints. This crown is given to those who have lived a good and righteous life for God while living down here on earth. (that doesn’t mean perfect little people who never sin…that is impossible! But doing one’s very best and not taking advantage of Jesus grace).
More on rewards/crowns: http://www.bible-knowledge.com/rewards-in-heaven/
The above is why I am thinking the pre-trib rapture is a partial rapture, however and I’ll shut up soon; there could be rapture at mid-trib, which is a first and only rapture or a second rapture (I really don’t know). We do know, after the two witnesses preach for 3 ½ years, they are killed, lie in the street three days, God breathes life back into them and says “Come up hither”. That is a 100% rapture at mid trib. The question: is it just for the two of them or for believers in Christ as well?
God Bless Gino, hope this helps and doesn’t add more confusion!