I welcome your participation and point of
view to our mostly "pre-trib" fellowship and am
humbly privileged to answer your questions which I
believe are sincere.
Right away, I have to say that I do not agree that
the scriptures you quote are describing the rapture of
the church because if they did then you would have a
point, that the gathering mentioned is immediately after
I believe that we ALL can agree that the four
previous scriptures are ALL describing the 'same
event' which is the rapture of the Church.
I believe that whatever this gathering is after the
tribulation it is not the same gathering as the rapture
because the rapture must be before the tribulation. How
can I say that, you must be asking? And your next
Where, in Scripture, can a 'pre-tribulation'
rapture be justified to refute these aforementioned
Scriptures that state the rapture happens AFTER or
FOLLOWING "the tribulation of those days" which is
referring to the "shortened" tribulation "cut short"
by the rapture ?
I can't imagine that you have not seen these
scriptures before but I also can't imagine that you have
seen them and yet still hold to your problem with this
because the following scriptures make it clear to me.
10. Because thou hast kept the word of my
patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of
temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try
them that dwell upon the earth.
If Jesus keeps us from the hour that is not the same
as keeping us safe within that hour is it? No, from the
hour itself means not even in the time/space continuum
at all but entirely removed from the hour itself which
would require the rapture being before the hour of
temptation or tribulation can begin. Please don't
confuse THE tribulation with general tribulation which
Jesus said in the world we shall have tribulation but
there is a specific time period designated the great
tribulation which is God's wrath that we are not
appointed to and a specific time of such horrible
tribulation that Jesus said no other time in the history
of the nations could be compared to it nor shall it ever
become like this again after.
Here's another one:
19. Thy dead men shall live, together
with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye
that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs,
and the earth shall cast out the dead.
20. Come, my people, enter thou into thy
chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as
it were for a little moment, until the indignation be
21. For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his
place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their
iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and
shall no more cover her slain.
Dead shall live and the earth casting out the dead
keeps this passage from merely speaking of any natural
hiding behind natural doors or in earthly chambers but
is speaking of the rapture away from earth to safe
locations while the tribulation is going on. There is a
constellation in the "Mazzaroth" or "Star Gospel" which
speaks of this hiding place as a place of traveler's
rest and is a temporary dwelling place like a hotel
where we will be kept safe while the wrath of God is
poured out on the earth. The constellation is know
popularly as Cancer the Crab but was originally more
like a sheepfold and the crab part was adopted because
of the powerful claw-like strength of the hold on us
which no enemy can break through or free. No one can
snatch us out of His hand.
1. The righteous perisheth, and no man
layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away,
none considering that the righteous is taken away from
the evil to come.
One of my favorites happened when I was challenged to
answer this same question by a man who was among a group
of patriots and Christians who were busy storing up
supplies in the mountains getting ready to survive the
tribulation and he invited me to join them, but he also
wanted to know the reason for my hope that we would be
raptured before the tribulation and not have to be here
for it. I decided to pray very hard for a good answer to
give to him which I promised I would do by letter (back
in 1996 e mail was not as common yet). I wanted God to
answer this for me once and for all because this was a
very good opportunity for me to also prepare if we were
meant to do so. I was prepared to drop my pre-trib hope
if God instructed me to and begin to also join these
folks in their plans to survive the trib, but I wanted
God to tell me what to do. So I prayed earnestly
for God's answer to me and His answer was that He wanted
me to read Psalm 11, and that would be my answer.
I was astonished at the perfection of this answer in
addressing this very detailed specific question. Here is
1. In the Lord put I my trust: how say ye
to my soul, Flee as a bird to your mountain?
2. For, lo, the wicked bend their bow, they
make ready their arrow upon the string, that they may
privily shoot at the upright in heart.
3. If the foundations be destroyed, what can
the righteous do?
4. The Lord is in his holy temple, the
Lord's throne is in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids
try, the children of men.
5. The Lord trieth the righteous: but the
wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
6. Upon the wicked he shall rain snares,
fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall
be the portion of their cup.
7. For the righteous Lord loveth
righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.
This is so specific to the very question I was asking
of God. It says I will trust God to deliver me from the
evil of this world and so how can you say that I should
flee as a bird to your mountain and store supplies with
hope to be delivered that way when God is in heaven and
that is where He will take me so that I will behold Him
and He will behold me face to face in His throne room. I
was not even familiar with this Psalm when He told me to
read it so you can imagine my surprise and delight and
renewed confidence upon reading this and never again
have I doubted that the rapture is before the
tribulation not after it. If others desire to prepare
for the tribulation up in the mountains and hope to
survive it up there, that is for them to decide, but
this passage given to me by God upon my specific request
tells me that I need not join them nor prepare anything
I also find it very interesting that if there is any
truth or substance to the idea presented by J. R. Church
that the Psalms may relate prophetically to the time we
are in as Psalm numbers to dates with the book of Psalms
being the 19th book in the Bible and Psalm 11 would then
relate to 1911, this is very significant in that the
foundations were begun to be destroyed by the wicked at
that very time when they met secretly at Jekyll Island
in a gun club to lay the secret plans of what would
become the Federal Reserve system that would destroy the
foundations of this country. So the question is asked
what shall the righteous do in the face of this
situation, flee to the mountains as a bird? Or trust in
the Lord and join Him in His holy temple and throne
room in heaven?
I know that there are other scriptures besides these
but these should give you at least some idea where my
confidence comes from. Also when Jesus said when you see
these things BEGIN to come to pass then lift your heads
your redemption draws nigh. He could have said when you
see these things begin to come to pass then store up
food and weapons and supplies because you will need to
last for the duration before I will come to get you.
That is why it is called the blessed hope and not the
dreaded despair that we must endure the worst time since
there was a nation.