Amy VanGerpen (20 Feb 2012)
"RE: Bruce Warner"

 
Hi Bruce,
First of all, He was instructing His disciples who are believers. They asked Him, " what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" 

Where does it say that only believing Jews require a sign?  Looks like the unbelieving Pharisees also asked for a sign and Jesus gave them one. 

1 Corinthians 1:22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;

Matthew 12:38-40 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.” But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 16:1-4 Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. He answered and said to them, “When it is evening you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red’; and in the morning, ‘It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.’ Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” And He left them and departed.
 
John 2:18-19 So the Jews answered and said to Him, “What sign do You show to us, since You do these things?” Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
There are so many issues with putting the Church into the Tribulaton. I have tried to tackle them all in the following study:
 
http://www.trackingbibleprophecy.org/rapture.php
 
But let's go back to the elect. I believe that the Bible clearly interprets itself.  The "elect" in Matthew 24 is the Jewish elect.  This is not unbelieving Jews, but the 1/3 that God has reserved for His remnant (Zechariah 13). 
 
Note the parallels in the examples speaking of Israel:

Matthew 24:31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Isaiah 65:9 I will bring forth descendants from Jacob, And from Judah an heir of My mountains; My elect shall inherit it, And My servants shall dwell there.
Deut 30:1-4 "Now it shall come to pass, when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the LORD your God drives you, and you return to the LORD your God and obey His voice, according to all that I command you today, you and your children, with all your heart and with all your soul, that the LORD your God will bring you back from captivity, and have compassion on you, and gather you again from all the nations where the LORD your God has scattered you. If any of you are driven out to the farthest parts under heaven, from there the LORD your God will gather you, and from there He will bring you.
Isaiah 11:12 He will set up a banner for the nations, And will assemble the outcasts of Israel, And gather together the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.
Isaiah 27:12-13 And it shall come to pass in that day That the LORD will thresh, From the channel of the River to the Brook of Egypt; And you will be gathered one by one, O you children of Israel. So it shall be in that day: The great trumpet will be blown; They will come, who are about to perish in the land of Assyria, And they who are outcasts in the land of Egypt, And shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
 
Note the lack of parallels in the examples that talk about the Church:
 
Romans 8:33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
Colossians 3:12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;
 
2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
1 Peter 1:1-2 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
 
Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,
 
Romans 11:25-28 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
Maranatha!
Amy Van Gerpen
 
 
 
Bruce Warner (18 Feb 2012)
"TO: Amy VanGerpen RE: (17 Feb 2012) OLIVET DISCOURSE"

Hi Amy,
 
You state that you DO NOT believe that Jesus was speaking about His 'faithful Church', ie. the elect, in His Olivet Discourse, but rather you believe that he was speaking about  the 'unbelieving Jews' at the time of His return at the end of the age in the Olivet Discourse.
 
I believe that He was speaking of His Church who are 'His elect', who are also watching for the sign of His return at the end of the age.
 
First of all, He was instructing His disciples who are believers. They asked Him, " what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?"  The unbelieving Jews of Israel are not going to be watching for signs of His return, but the believing Church will be. Then Jesus went on to describe the beginning of birth pains as  signs  to watch for. He is speaking to 'believers' who are His Church watching for his return at the end of the age, not to the unbelieving Jews of Israel. Then He says, he who stands firm to the end will be saved."  He is speaking to His faithful watching Church - not to the unbelieving Jews of israel.
 
YBIC, Bruce Warner