John B (16 Feb 2011)
"RE: Mercer---The fifth seal--Raptured showing up in heaven"

I respectfully disagree with your conclusion concerning the fifth seal. You say that the untold millions of people from all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues that are standing before the throne and before the Lamb in white robes in Rev.7:9-17----are not the raptured Church but those killed by the antichrist.
Then just where in scripture do you find the untold millions of dead in Christ and alive in Christ that were raptured showing up? Do you really believe that the greatest event that will ever happen throughout the history of the earth---the rapture of the church--would not be documented in God's holy scripture somewhere where it's obvious? Are you one of the crowd that believes that the rapture happens before any of the seals are opened in Rev.5 where the only reference to the raptured church is found in a "future" song with no one showing up physically?
Jesus just gave the dead in Christ--- those who had been asleep throughout the ages their white robes in the fifth seal and told them what? Wait--wait for what? Wait for the total number of His church to be accumulated. The living who were accepting Him (now) and the ones who were at that time (now) being martyred for Him. And when this total number of Jesus' followers, which is know only to God, has been accumulated, then and only then will the rapture happen. Obviously this number is reached and then Jesus opens the sixth seal where the rapture of the church happens. He combines (in the rapture) the dead in Christ from the fifth seal with the alive in Christ at the sixth seal and we all gloriously show up a few verses later----all of us with our white robes.
And yes these people we are speaking about did come out of the great tribulation---meaning---they did not have to go through it as Jesus promised.
And you say that it can't be the raptured that show up in Rev.7 because those people are serving Him in the temple and that the raptured are kings and priests. You make it sound like kings and priests can't serve Him in the temple.  I personally believe that all of the raptured people collectively make up His church---the body of Christ---and are so to speak--- His temple.
When you say that the ones under the altar---then you have to be referring to those in the fifth seal---are killed by the antichrist. You are indirectly correct in that many of those under the altar in the fifth seal were killed throughout the centuries for their faith in Christ and if you are not with Christ then you are antichrist. Meaning that the people who killed these martyrs throughout the centuries were not of Christ they were of antichrist or had an antichrist spirit.
It is not until the end times that a physical person rises to become "the Antichrist" in the flesh and not the spirit of antichrist. You seem to believe that the saints that show up by the untold millions in Rev. 7:9 have been killed by the "in the flesh antichrist". Not so he is alive at the time but hasn't as yet risen to power and become indwelled by Satan. And I realize that the antichrist that will rule the one world government will kill millions of people around the planet in his reign of terror in the tribulation period but ---do you really believe that he will kill a great multitude which no one could number from---all nations, every tribe, every peoples and every tongue throughout the whole planet?? No way!!!  This great multitude are the believers in Jesus from all corners of the planet past and present who were just removed from the planet to escape God's wrath just as He promised. Now just as scripture states in Rev.6:17----the great day of God's wrath begins----it begins just after He has just removed this great multitude---His Church----His Bride---the body of Christ.
Mercer (15 Feb 2011)
"Let's settle who's unser the alter-5th Seal"

Rapture of the Tribulation Saints


9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

                                                     This is not the Church!!

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir,[b] you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them.


NOTE; They serve in the Temple,

The “CHURCH” serve as Priests and Kings Revelation 1:6 (New King James Version)

6 and has made us kings[a] and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Hope you all see the difference!!

Those under the alter are killed by the Anti-Christ