John (who wrote the Book of Revelations) was clearly CAUGHT up into heaven. Look at Rev. 4:1-3. The voice tells him very plainly "COME UP HITHER, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter."  John is CAUGHT UP just as the church will be caught up at the rapture. This is because John is a type of the brideof Christ.

 

John was called the disciple whom Jesus loved for a reason. Jesus loved John in a special way just as he loves the CHURCH in a special way. It is JOHN who was leaning on the Lord's breast at the last supper. (Probably right about over the 5th rib below where Jesus would have been pierced with a sword by the Roman Centurion - ya know, kinda like that rib that was taken from Adam's side to make Eve).  Paul was caught up too and the reason Paul was not given the liberty to speak of his experience is because God already planned that it was JOHN who was going to be given the words to wright down in the Book of Revelation and it was to keep Paul humble. While it is true that Buddhists and Hindus (etc, etc.) have had spiritual experiences of being caught up and seeing Buddha as god, we can all know that they are having false experiences simply because we know from God's Holy Word that JESUS is GOD not Buddha and not the Hindu gods. It is you who quoted the very verse about Satan being able to transform himself into an angel of light to DECEIVE.  Well, who doesn't know that Satan MIMICS everything that God does?  Just because he mimics God, does not mean that everyone who has heard from God and had GENUINE experiences in the supernatural of seeing God and His throne and being brought back to life is not genuine and real. Let God be true, but every man a liar. Elijah was caught up into heaven alive and so was Enoch. God always makes exceptions. For example, he said "it is appointed unto men once to die, then after this the judgement." (Heb 9:27).

 

But we all know of people who have died twice-- such as the people that Jesus raised from the dead. Jairus' daughter for example. Well, we all know that they died again later in life. Moses died once, but he comes back again in Revelations as one of the two witnesses and he dies a 2nd time. We also know there is an entire generation of believers who will NEVER DIE - those who go up in the rapture and Enoch was a type of the raptured saints - so Enoch goes UP without ever dying! So does that make God a liar when he said "it is appointed unto men once to die"? Of course not! God always has exceptions. God has natural laws, Ellen, but He can also break His own natural laws. A good example is conception. Now most people know that it takes a man and a woman to conceive a child, but there are always exceptions. God can make a human being without ever involving a woman or a man (Adam). He can make a human being without ever involving a man (the birth of Jesus, who was virgin born), AND he can make a human with a man AND a woman being involved (you and me and most of humanity).

 

You address Frank, myself and others who "misunderstood" you and apologize for offending us. You throw out a five pound bag of sugar, then you drown it with a gallon of vinegar in your next comment:   "it is obvious from your post that my words bothered you.  I hope that we can recognize and agree that reactions in the flesh are not of Christ.  I am the weakest of vessels here, so I pray that my words don't offend you more.  Nevertheless....." 

 

It is very typical of the way cults work - they throw a compliment at someone, talk about how humble (or what a weak vessel they are)  right before they insult them. Then you say you hope your words don't offend anyone further and tell anyone who has had a life-changing experience that they swallowed a camel that originated from "idols in their heart (mind), rather than from God." Uh-huh - and no one is supposed to take offense at this.

 

My brother's experience was not some la-la land fairy tale mental hallucination spawned from the pit and neither was what happened to Dr. Richard Eby. Neither one of them swallowed a camel.  My brother became a genuine Christian after his experience, so to say that his dream originated from some type of "idol" in his "heart" is ludicrous.  To say that having a near-death experience that changes ones life can't be genuine and can't be from God because the Hindus and Buddhists have those experiences about their particular god too is total absurdity. Jesus himself said that in the last days he would give visions and dreams and signs in the earth and heavens. My brother was not a prophet, did not prophesy anything prophetic about the future, so he certainly was not wrong about anything - he simply stated what happened to him. He had no pre-conceived notions about what he "thought" was the truth and he certainly had no IDOLS in his heart and did not swallow a camel, and neither did Dr. Eby. They were not having DREAMS, or hallucinations. Ian McCormick was not a prophet and neither was pastor Daniel Ekuchube. As a matter-of-fact, Daniel Eukuchube was dead for three days lying in a morgue before he was raised up, so what happened to him was not really considered a "near-death" experience. He was actually DEAD. Dr. Eby bled out and was actually declared dead for several hours, so what happened to him was not "near-death," he actually was dead for a period of time.

 

As for the rich man in hell, you referred to this as a PARABLE ---- hmmmm.... that tells me you don't believe it is a TRUE account ---- you need to go back and read the account again. You will find that Jesus did NOT call the rich man in hell a parable, yet when he told a parable, he stated that it was a parable, but not in the case of the rich man in hell. Why? Because it was a TRUE story - it was not a parable. See Luke 16:19-20 "There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores." There is nothing anywhere to identify this as a PARABLE. You can search it for the next twenty years and you won't find it identified as a parable.  Jesus even called Lazarus by name (I am not speaking of Martha and Mary's brother from Bethany of course). This also tells me something else about your belief system. You mentioned that swallowing a camel referred to "doctrines that have infiltrated the church since 400 AD."  So - you are referring to what you consider to be false doctrines, but you don't specify exactly what you mean by these "infiltrated doctrines."  It is pretty obvious to me that you do not believe in a literal hell. So - you are a Mormon, a 7th Day Adventist or you are a Jehovah's witness - which is it?  Hell is a real, LITERAL place. Trying to make it symbolic means that it is you who have swallowed the CAMEL. 

 

Blessings,

Rene