EAR (23 Feb 2006)
"GOG is NOT a Russian Leader"

 

GOG and MAGOG is NOT Russia.

In his recent article “The Twelfth Imam” by Gary Stearman which was referred to Five Doves –

(Donna Danna -20 February 2006)

He states –"Gog and Magog.…. refers to a Russian leader and his Islamic alliance.”

This is NOT TRUE -  Gog has NOTHING TO DO WITH MODERN RUSSIA.   

In Ezekiel 38:3 Gog is described as the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal.  

There is also reasonable doubt as to whether this particular attack occurs before the commencement of the messianic kingdom.    Some Prophecy scholars say there are two attacks by Gog, this is to make their timetable fit their particular interpretation of scripture.   

Revelation 20:7-8 states quite clearly that Gog attacks Israel after the 1,000 years millennial rule when God finally destroys them.

            “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.  And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city;  and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.  And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

This battle obviously takes place when populations have recovered during the millennial kingdom period, and this is the LAST and FINAL END of Satan before the creation of the new heaven and earth of Rev. 21.    At the end of 1,000 years there may well be a person known as Gog – no doubt the Nations will have changed quite a lot.

Whether there is an earlier attack before the Millenial Kingdom, I have yet to be convinced.  The context of Ezekiel 36:8-38 would  indicate that God is returning them to the land and blessing them, Ezekiel 37 is about the spiritual awakening in the valley of dry bones and the restoration of the sticks of Joseph and Ephraim.    If these chapters are chronological, then we need to see Ezekiel 37 fulfilled before the Battle of Gog and Magog occurs.    There is also the verse which says Ezek.38:8 “After many days thou shalt be visited;  in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste;  but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.”

To date, neither the spiritual awakening, nor the restoration of Joseph with Ephraim, nor the dwelling in safety has been fulfilled.

However, to get back to the subject of GOG and where he is from -

Any decent Biblical Dictionary or Bible Atlas will show quite clearly on the “Table of Nations” that the tribe of  -

Meshech is positioned in the current REPUBLIC OF TURKEY.     

Tubal is positioned partly in EASTERN TURKEY and NORTHERN IRAN.

Prophetic writers need to get out of the “COLD WAR MENTALITY” of believing that Rosh stands for Russia, Meshech stands for Moscow,  and Tubal stands for Tobol’sk,  and STOP naming Russia as the leader of the coalition that comes against Israel in the war of Ezekiel 38/38.

The New Bible Commentary published by Inter-Varsity Fellowship brings sound and careful scholarship from some of the best evangelical scholars of the 20th Century.  The main contributor on apocalyptic literature Dr. G.R. Beasley-Murray has contributed the commentaries of Ezekiel and Revelation.   On Ezekiel 38:1 – 39:29  he states –

“Meshech and Tubal were probably east of Asia Minor and are usually identified with Phrygia and Cappadocia: their equation with Moscow and Tobolsk and Rosh with Russia, is unsupportable.”      

The two people-groups/nations named were descendants of Japheth, they were associated with the area to the South East of the Black Sea, (GET A MAP and Look where that is)  and were associated with Phrygia, the kingdom which succeeded the Hittites in Asia Minor (TURKEY).

The New Macmillan Encylopedia :  PHRYGIA – The central and Western areas of Asia Minor (TURKEY) inhabited after the Hittite empire collapsed (12th BC)

New Bible Dictionary: MESHECH

“….Meshech refers to a people perhaps speaking an Indo-European language that entered the Near East from the northern steppe, and imposed themselves as rulers upon the indigenous population of an area in eastern Anatolia  (ASIA MINOR or now TURKEY).

New Bible Dictionary : GOG AND MAGOG

“…LXX, probably correctly, understood Magog as a people, not a country.   The only reasonable identification of Gog is with Gyges, king of Lydia (c. 660 B.C.)  - (Assyrian – GUGU).  The linkage with peoples at the extremities of the then known world …suggests that we are to regard them as eschatological figures rather than as a historically identifiable king…”   

Lydia which was sited in the centre of the western slope of Asia Minor, later became part of the Persian Empire under Cyrus.  He conquered Babylon, Media and Lydia – These are believed to be the 3 ribs in the mouth of the Bear Beast (Persia) described in Daniel 7.

The New Macmillan Encyclopaedia:

“Asia Minor or Anatolia – The Westernmost part of Asia between the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea approximating to present-day TURKEY.    For much of the second millennium B.C., Asia Minor was the centre of the Hittite empire.   After the Hittites’ collapse (12th Century BC) central and W. Asia Minor were dominated by Phrygia, ….Phrygia fell to Lydia in the 6th Century, but in 546 Cyrus the Great established…. Control over Asia Minor.   In 333 it was conquered by Alexander the Great, and after his death, during the Hellenistic age, it was contested by the Seleucids and the Ptolemies.   Asia Minor came under Roman control in the 2nd and 1st Centuries BC forming part of the Roman Empire and then the Eastern Roman (subsequently Byzantine) Empire.

Conquered by the Seljuq Turks in the 11th Century AD and overrun by the Mongols in the 13th, Asia Minor was incorporated in the Ottoman Empire during the 14th and 15th centuries.”

TURKEY therefore was an integral part of Alexander the Great’s Empire – it was part of the Seleucid Empire, part of the Roman and Byzantine Empire and part of the Ottoman Empire which fell at the end of the 1st World War –

I believe the OTTOMAN EMPIRE was the 7th empire head of the Revelation 17 Beast.    It has not existed for the last 82 years.    IT WAS – IS NOT, and it is  YET TO BE.

Rev. 17:11  “And the Beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and OF the seven and goeth into perdition.”

GOG WILL COME OUT OF TURKEY/IRAN – (whether once or twice!!)   to lead the ALLIANCE against ISRAEL.

Ezekiel 38:1-6   “And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, and say, Thus said the Lord GOD, behold, I am against thee of Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal;  And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords;  Persia, Ethiopia and Libya with them;  all of them with shield and helmet:  Gomer, (Georgia/Azerbajan areas)  and all his bands;  the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, (North/Eastern TURKEY)  and all his bands, and many people with thee.  ….”

The phrase above “I will turn thee back and put hooks into thy jaws” indicated that Gog was heading in the opposite direction to which God intended.   If this battle occurs before the Messianic Kingdom is instituted, it could very well refer to the fact that Turkey is at present seeking accession into the E.U. i.e., towards the West, - HOWEVER I believe Turkey will soon change its mind, and revert to its Islamic roots and turn towards its neighbours in the East – Persia, (Iran – and other Islamic countries in the Middle East with radical fundamentalist factions.)

The description of this army “horses and horsemen”  -  “all sorts of armour”  -  “bucklers and shields”  -  “swords”  -   “shields and helmet”  -  “all their bands”  -  “and many people with thee” would indicate that these are people groups, gathered out of a wider geographical area, united in one cause.

The other obvious fact in support of the contention that Turkey is the area in question, is found on a World map, where Turkey is the land directly to the North of Israel.

This alliance beast is described in Rev. 17:3 as a “scarlet coloured beast”.   This is the colour of Turkey’s flag.

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Although the crescent and star are traditional symbols of the Islamic religion, the crescent moon and star in the Turkish flag are said to pre-date Islam and are not meant to represent Islam.

Some information states that the crescent moon symbol represents the moon goddess, Diana, and that the star is a symbol referring to the Virgin Mary.  These two symbols were current when Constantinople was the capital of the Byzantine Empire. When the Turkic peoples conquered the area, they retained the symbols and added them to their own plain red flag.

TURKEY was the area that came under the control of the Seleucids (described in Daniel as King of the North) after the breakup of the Hellenic Empire (Alexander the Great).

New Bible Dictionary:

            SELEUCUS – One of Alexander’s lesser generals, who took control of the far eastern satrapies after his death, and …..the Seleucid domains were later extended over most of Asia Minor i.e. (TURKEY).   The dynasty, many of whose kings bore the names of Seleucus or Antiochus, ruled from Syria for two and a half centuries, until suspended by the Romans.”

One of their kings Antiochus IV Epiphanes desecrated the Jewish temple on 25 December 169 causing the cessation of the sacrifices in the Temple and the erection of a Greek altar on the site of the old one.

This Seleucid King is the biblical pre-cursor of the person called The BEAST, named 666 or King of the North.   The Beast’s eventual proxy empire will extend over the same areas as that of the Grecian (Hellenistic) Empire, but it will be radical fundamentalist ISLAMIC in nature.    The Islamo-fascist radicals (both military and clerical) will take control of the Islamic governments in these areas and impose Sharia law on their own people, making them worship the Beast Empire and his representative.  

Has anyone wondered why the REVELATION message was written to the 7 Churches in Asia Minor, (Turkey)  or why Paul’s Missionary journeys covered the same area, or why the Apostle John saw the 1st beast rising out of the sea whilst he was on Patmos (24 miles off the coast of Turkey).

All of the original named 7 Churches of Revelation are positioned right where the Lion’s mouth of the future ISLAMIC BEAST’s EMPIRE is situated.

See my posts for a fuller explanation –

The urls are http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2005/ear1012.htm

                 http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2005/ear1019.htm

                 http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2005/ear1026.htm

Can I quote De Trefethen in his post 20th Feb. on Five Doves

“Prophecy teachers espouse the error of prophecy teachers before them. Moreover, this is what we have today. Modern day prophecy teachers have taught us error, and unless we get in and dig through the Scripture like good stewards of the Word - we will parrot those same errors…. and most of us are too lazy to check out God’s Word to see if what they propagate is true.”

Jesus told us TO WATCH.    -    Watch the MIDDLE EAST – that is where it is all going to happen – GOG will not come out of RUSSIA – The Beast “Anti-Christ” will not come out of WESTERN EUROPE. 

These end-time entities are going to come out of the Islamic Peoples  to the North and East of Israel out of the areas covered by the previous 7 empires in the Fertile Crescent of the Middle East, i.e. Nimrod’s Babel, Assyrian, Neo Babylonian, Persian, Grecian, Roman and Ottoman Empires.     This is the area where the end-time beast arises.   

ISHMAEL/ESAU, the ARABS/ISLAM, who are the dispossessed sons of Abraham are about to challenge ISAAC/JACOB (JEWS/JUDAISM) for the control of Jerusalem – to regain their lost birthright, and claim sovereignty over the Holy Land, and therefore the World.

It is an age-old battle between YAHWEH the Creator God, and  Satan  the Prince of Darkness.

We had better be looking in the right direction…..