Dear John,
Thank you for your wonderful website. I have been reading it
for quite some time and so appreciate the scholarly wisdom and in depth
research these precious saints have given. You can tell that many pour their lives
into it and I am so thankful they have for it let’s a person like me receive
the benefit, which I am very grateful for THANK YOU DOVES. Like everyone on
this board, I am anxiously awaiting the very very very soon return of our
Lord Jesus.
And Like Arlene I was puzzled over WHO the restrainer is in
II Thes.chap 2. after being taught the traditional meaning for apostasy for so
many years. I probably pondered over “who the restrainer was” for
about a year and studied many different interpretations but found no satisfaction until Marilyn Agee an
accomplished Bible scholar and precious saint graciously enlightened me. When
she explained it, it FINALLY MADE SENSE!!!
And our discussion is below. But before you read it however another
clue of what the “falling
away” is in
II Thes. 2:3 is found in verses 5 and 6 of II Thes. Chapter 2.
. . .Do you not remember that when I was still with you
I told you these things( these
things=falling away)? And now you know
what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time.
What did Paul talk to them about?
If you back up to I Thes. you will see what Paul told the Thessalonians
when he was with them the first time!
What you DO NOT
see in I Thes. is a lot of discussion about the church leaving the faith,
BUT WHAT YOU DO SEE is A LOT OF
DISCUSSION ABOUT THE RETURN OF OUR LORD AND OUR BEING CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH
HIM and the Church leaving this planet!
PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!
The restrainer is THE CHURCH, there is no doubt in my mind
about this, and the “falling away” is THE CHURCH (the pre
Only after the rapture can the anti
Below is mine and Marilyn’s email discussion:
. . .I have always thought that the “falling
away” in II Thes.2:3 was the falling away of believers from the church into
a belief of a lie like the new age belief that there is more than one way to
God the father. Is this not the meaning of the “falling away”? I looked up apostasy and found the greek
meaning apostasia apo= away and stasis=a standing. As
you know, “standing” kind of has a double meaning in the English
language it either can mean “physically standing in a place” or it
could mean “where you are in your thoughts on a
My question is “What does the greek
word apostasia “ away” and “the standing” mean in
II Thes. 2:3?
Not being a Greek scholar, I have no idea and was wondering if you knew.
Secondly. . .
What is the “day of
Thirdly, and please forgive my ignorance on this subject,
but I thought the anti-christ is the
one that would show himself as God? Not the false prophet, I thought the false
prophet would be setting up the anti-christ to be shown as God by doing
“lying wonders”
Fourthly, when did Paul tell the
Thessalonians “these things” ? I have searched and never found
where he told them this, do you know?
Marilyn’s response:
Hi:
Thanks for your kind words.
> > I looked up apostasy and found the Greek meaning
apostasia apo= away and stasis=a standing.
A standing away from is a de
> > “What does the greek word
apostasia “away” and “the standing” mean in II
Thes. 2:3?
Apostasia has the article in front of
it. It isn't just some general falling away from the correct teaching
concerning
(a fore note:
marilyn wrote. . .Why the translators of the KJV broke with the established
translation and put "a falling away," I can't imagine. . . .
I think
the King James translation of “falling away” is correct, you just
have to look at in the right light J. But you have to go back to other versions and really study it to
understand and Marilyn did just that and it made sense)
The World English Bible says, "it
will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE
(the Rapture) comes FIRST,
and the man of sin (the False Prophet) is revealed (second), the son of
destruction." The KJV has "the son of perdition."
Judas Iscariot was the first son of
perdition. Satan entered into him. The False Prophet is the second son of
perdition, because Satan also enters into him. The two horns in Rev. 13:11
stand for the two comings to power in these two men that Satan is allowed.
This is like Christ's two comings, represented by the two horns of the ram
Abraham sacrificed instead of Isaac.
In II Thess. 2:1 (KJV), Paul said, "Now we ('Paul,
and Silvanus, and Timotheus," 1:1) beseech you, brethren (believers), by
THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, AND BY OUR (believers', including Paul,
Silvanus, and Timotheus) GATHERING TOGETHER UNTO HIM". This is the first
Rapture, when John is caught up to Heaven in Rev. 4:1. In Rev. 4:4, the 24
elders, 12
Therefore, THE DEPARTURE in verse 3 is the Pre-Trib Rapture.
It must come first. The revealing of the man of sin when he confirms "the
convenant with many for one week" (of years, Dan. 9:27) is second. He
must "be revealed in his time (i.e., at the beginning of the
Tribulation). His sitting in the temple "shewing himself that he is
God" is third, Mid-Trib.
Why can't he be revealed before the Tribulation? The Holy
Spirit in the salt-of-the-Earth believers is restraining him so that he will
"be revealed in his time", in the Tribulation.
Therefore, the Rapture has to take place before the wicked
one can be revealed at the beginning of "his time," the Tribulation.
Only then will the restraining influence be removed. He will then be "taken
(ginomai, to arise, be taken) out of the way" at the Rapture. At that
time, at the Rapture at the beginning of the Tribulation, "then shall
that Wicked be revealed." "Even him, whose coming is after the
working of Satan with all power and signs and LYING WONDERS" (II Thess.
2:9). This ties him in with the False Prophet, who "doeth GREAT WONDERS,
so that he maketh fire come down from heaven in the earth in the sight of
men" (Rev. 13:13).
> > What is the “day of
It should be translated day of the Lord. That is the
day of the "last trump," the Pre-Wrath Rapture, and the Day of God's
Wrath.
Both Raptures are called a Day of the Son of Man. They would
each be a Day of
The Pre-Trib Rapture is as the days of Noah. "Then
shall two be in the field (the field is the world); the one shall BE TAKEN (
The Pre-Wrath Rapture is as the day of
> > I thought the anti-christ is the one that would
show himself as God? Not the false prophet, I thought the false prophet would
be setting up the anti-christ to be shown as God by doing “lying
wonders”
IIJohn1:7 (KJV) says, "For many deceivers are
entered into the world, WHO CONFESS
NOT THAT JESUS CHRIST IS COME IN THE FLESH. THIS IS A (lit., THE) DECEIVER
AND AN (lit., THE) ANTICHRIST."
Green translates II John 1:7 thus. "Because many
deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess that Jesus
I think THE Antichrist will be the False Prophet. I
John 2:22 (KJV) says, "Who is a (lit., THE) liar but HE THAT DENIETH THAT JESUS IS THE CHRIST?
HE IS (lit., THE) ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH THE FATHER AND THE SON."
Green translates I John 2:22 thus. "Who is a liar but
he who denies that Jesus is THE
I think the first Beast will be the Tribulation Pope. He
will carry the name of blasphemy, Pontifex Maximus, just as the leaders of
Zech. 5:4 says, "I will bring it (the curse, the
asteroid that orbits over the face of the Earth, v. 3) forth, saith the
LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False
Prophet, who steals the World Church), and into the house of him (the
Tribulation Pope) that SWEARETH FALSELY BY MY NAME: and it shall remain in
the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the
stones thereof."
> > Fourthly, when did Paul tell the Thessalonians
“these things” ? I have searched and never found where he told them
this, do you know?
He said, "when I was yet with you" (II Thess. 5),
i.e., when he was there in person teaching them the "gospel of God"
(I Thess. 2:9).
That har
In II Cor. 12:2, Paul said, "I knew a man (Paul
himself) in
Agape, Marilyn
mjagee@pe.net
http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee
http://home.pe.net/~mjagee
1 Thess. 1:10: "wait for his Son from heaven, whom he
raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.