Gino (26 Dec 2021)
"RE: Donna Danna & Gino: 12.19.21: the Son before the manger"

Sadly, for years I heard an arian approach to Proverbs 8 preached by different people.
They presented the portion in Proverbs 8, that speaks about wisdom, as actually about the Son in eternity past.
They explained that Proverbs 8 shows the Son of God, “brought forth” as a baby God, in eternity past.
They explained that Proverbs 8 shows that the little Son of God was “brought up” with the Father, in eternity past.

Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
  23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
  24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
  25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
  26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
  27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
  28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
  29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
  30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
  31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Although their preaching was received with much shouting, none of us were thinking about what was actually said.
The preaching sounded “cute”, and that sufficed the emotional need of those listening, but it was not sound doctrine, at all.

The LORD is immutable, but their preaching presented a total change in the Godhead, way back in eternity past.
Also, the LORD is called the everlasting Father:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

For there to be an everlasting Father, there must needs be an everlasting Son.
They claim that Proverbs 8:23-25 shows the “beginning of the Son”, or the “birth” of the Son of God, from the beginning.
However, the scriptures say:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
  2 The same was in the beginning with God.
  3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The Son has always been the Son, and the Father has always been the Father.
There was not a time, when there was only the Father, and not yet the Son.
That is the teaching of Arius, whom Athanasius refuted from the scriptures, at the council of Nicea.

Also, the Son didn’t “begin” in the beginning, actually he is the beginning, there is nothing else before him:

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Revelation 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

No, the portion in Proverbs 8 is speaking about wisdom, as seen in the first two words of Proverbs 8:12

Proverbs 8:12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

There cannot be a simple blanket equating, like “the Son = wisdom” & “wisdom = the Son”
For one, wisdom is presented with female pronouns:

Proverbs 8:1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?
  2 She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.
  3 She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

Proverbs 9:1 Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
  2 She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table.
  3 She hath sent forth her maidens: she crieth upon the highest places of the city,
  4 Whoso is simple, let him turn in hither: as for him that wanteth understanding, she saith to him,

Additionally, if they claim that wisdom is the Son:

Proverbs 8:12 I wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.

Then who is prudence?    His sister?    No such thing!