from WhodaThunk,
Point by point review.
The evidence, as compared
to scripture is out-standing.
This is your first statement, which is a
conclusion not a refutation of any fact.
My impression, as a woman,
of this face is not that he is handsome but
typically Jewish with a very long nose of 6", I have
read. I'd say he had a very common look,
certainly not the kind Hollywood would rush onto
it's screens.
There really is not much
you can refute here as the image is of a reasonably handsome
man.
Look carefully at the image and
don't you see that the beard, on his right side of
the face is much thinner as if plucked out.
The scripture doesn't tell us the whole beard was
plucked out. He gave his cheeks to them.
It would be as if grabbing a man by the hair up by
the sides of his face and yanking at
him. It is the same side that has
the badly swollen eye and cheek bone.
When
I was in Israel I was taken to a place underground in a room
carved out of stone where the Roman soldiers likely tortured
Him. They tortured Him for eight or more hours, they
ripped out his beard, beat him unmercifully ... so bad in fact
that He was physically unable to carry His own cross to
Golgotha. Now you look at a small piece of imagery and say
that this small piece of what looks like could be missing beard
on His face with practically NO physical damage to it might be
His?
They beat the crap out of Him, He was paying for the sins of the
entire world, they did not spare His face! And a bruised
eye ... I don't think so. He would have had most if not
all of His beard ripped out, which would have left His face
bleeding, and covered with blood. The removal of the beard
in this manner would have ripped the upper layers of the skin
completely off His body. His mother would be lucky to even
recognize Him after such treatment.
The image of this face simply does not meet the criteria of
Jesus's torture that occurred as a part of the crucifixion.
The Shroud was 14' long, way
long enough to cover the whole body, like a long
sheet all the way over his 5"10" body as has been
determined. The Shroud was placed right over
the Sudarium "face cloth" which was placed over his
face right after death before he had even been taken
off the cross. The blood stains on the
Sudarium, which had been folded and placed near by,
bore the very same marks as were left on the Shroud
which had been placed over the whole body.
While it is true that this shroud was placed over the entire
body, this is inconsistent with
the
burial practices at the time. But! Let's say we
assume that this is correct, then you have the face cloth over
His head then how does the image go THROUGH THE FACECLOTH AND
REMAIN COMPLETELY CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE SHROUD?
Doesn't work because that is not the way it happened.
As for the body being soaked
in Myrrh, you remember that he died at 3pm on
Passover Day, the same evening in which he had
spent the last supper with his desciples eating the
Passover meal in which He actually presented
himself as the Passover Lamb, according to his
own words. Now, since the next Jewish Day was
soon to begin at 6pm, there was barely time for the
desciples to remove him from the cross (placing the
face covering over his face), carrying him to
the borrowed tomb, then laid him on the cloth that
was available over him, rolled the large round stone
over the entrance and hurried to get home
before the next day began, which was the Feast of
Unleavened Bread (The High Sabbath). The woman
had to wait until after that Feast to do the proper
preparation of his body, which included the spices,
etc. After the High Sabbath, came
the preparation day for the weekly
Sabbath and still they couldn't return to the
Tomb until it was over at 6pm and already
dark according to the
scriptures. Remember Jewish days begin in
the evening, not like the Gentile time at
Midnight. They left right away to the tomb to
place the spices and various flowers, etc. with the
body and found the tomb empty.
Not
so fast, the scripture says this:
Mat 27:59 And when Joseph had
taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth
...
Mar
15:46 And he bought fine linen, and took him down,
and wrapped him in the linen ...
Luk
23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen
...
Joh
19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it
in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the
Jews is to bury.
While Matthew, Mark, and Luke state the body was wrapped in a
clean linen cloth, John provides a more complete picture of what
happened. The burial practice was so common to these
Jewish disciples they didn't think it necessary to mention it
because it was common knowledge.
The job was hurried, and not done perfectly, but the purpose of
the wrapping is preservation, and the spices were to prohibit
the smell of decomposition. Remember Lazarus, "after three
days he stinketh!"
The linen was hard as a rock, and the cloth over the face was
NOT a part of what is being called a shroud ... a term NOT found
in the scripture related to this event.
I said: "
Now
for a little common sense. Have you ever seen a dead
person in the coffin at a wake? Their muscles in there
face no longer are held in place. Yet this image does not
show the face sagging as it does in a normal death."
And your reply:
This was a body that had just been
hit with the Resurrection Surge of power called the
Schkinah Glory that was so powerful as to leave an
imprint in the cloth.
This body had not just been hit with the Resurrection Surge of
power
,
it was dead! And it would remain dead for three days and
three nights ... unless you don't believe Jesus when He said
that. You went on to say:
Don't you think this very evidence
is so "unexplainable
Which
basically says you have no explanation, to which I agree.
You accept a very timid view of scourging, liked they slapped
Him around a bit then marched Him down to the cross after a
cappuccino. Most people died in the torture and never made
it to the cross. The art of crucifixion was to extract the
mos pain and suffering you could get out of a person, bringing
them to the point of death over and over again yet keeping them
barely alive so that the finish could be done publicly on the
cross.
It was crowd control, and it worked! A few bruises on the
face, a partial loosing of some beard hair ... whomever this guy
was he rated! because his torture was not very
severe. Jesus Christ, on the other hand, had the worst of
the worst torturing Him, these guys were demon possessed and
enjoyed torturing Jesus! Believe me, He did not look as
good as the image on the shroud of Turin.
The bottom line here is that you are free to believe whatever
you want to believe. I hope God reveals to you the truth
so that you know it is the truth.
In the scheme of things whether this Catholic relic is or is not
the real image of Jesus is so unimportant. It is not His
cup, or the stations of the cross, where He was or what He
touched, or what He owned, that is important.
It is the fact that He died on the cross to pay for MY sins, and
the sins of all who place their faith in His payment on the
cross that matters. Everything else is just a distraction.
worship not the created, but the creator!
Whodathunk
PS on the "Resurrection surge part" If this image was post
ressurection then why was there any facial defects at
all? You can't have it both ways ... Selah!