WhodaThunk (28 Dec 2011)
"Gerlinda about that Shroud"

from WhodaThunk,

Point by point review.
The evidence, as compared to scripture is out-standing.
This is your first statement, which is a conclusion not a refutation of any fact.

My impression, as a woman, of this face is not that he is handsome but typically Jewish with a very long nose of 6", I have read.  I'd say he had a very common look, certainly not the kind Hollywood would rush onto it's screens.
There really is not much you can refute here as the image is of a reasonably handsome man.
Look carefully at the image and don't you see that the beard, on his right side of the face is much thinner as if plucked out.  The scripture doesn't tell us the whole beard was plucked out.  He gave his cheeks to them.  It would be as if grabbing a man by the hair up by the sides of his face and yanking at him.    It is the same side that has the badly swollen eye and cheek bone. 
When I was in Israel I was taken to a place underground in a room carved out of stone where the Roman soldiers likely tortured Him.  They tortured Him for eight or more hours, they ripped out his beard, beat him unmercifully ... so bad in fact that He was physically unable to carry His own cross to Golgotha.  Now you look at a small piece of imagery and say that this small piece of what looks like could be missing beard on His face with practically NO physical damage to it might be His?

They beat the crap out of Him, He was paying for the sins of the entire world, they did not spare His face!  And a bruised eye ... I don't think so.  He would have had most if not all of His beard ripped out, which would have left His face bleeding, and covered with blood.  The removal of the beard in this manner would have ripped the upper layers of the skin completely off His body.  His mother would be lucky to even recognize Him after such treatment.

The image of this face simply does not meet the criteria of Jesus's torture that occurred as a part of the crucifixion.
The Shroud was 14' long, way long enough to cover the whole body, like a long sheet all the way over his 5"10" body as has been determined.  The Shroud was placed right over the Sudarium "face cloth" which was placed over his face right after death before he had even been taken off the cross.  The blood stains on the Sudarium, which had been folded and placed near by, bore the very same marks as were left on the Shroud which had been placed over the whole body.
While it is true that this shroud was placed over the entire body, this is inconsistent with the burial practices at the time.  But!  Let's say we assume that this is correct, then you have the face cloth over His head then how does the image go THROUGH THE FACECLOTH AND REMAIN COMPLETELY CONSISTENT WITH THE REST OF THE SHROUD?  Doesn't work because that is not the way it happened.
As for the body being soaked in Myrrh, you remember that he died at 3pm on Passover Day, the same evening in which he had spent the last supper with his desciples eating the Passover meal in which He actually presented himself as  the Passover Lamb, according to his own words.  Now, since the next Jewish Day was soon to begin at 6pm, there was barely time for the desciples to remove him from the cross (placing the face covering over his face), carrying  him to the borrowed tomb, then laid him on the cloth that was available over him, rolled the large round stone over the entrance and hurried to get home before the next day began, which was the Feast of Unleavened Bread (The High Sabbath).  The woman had to wait until after that Feast to do the proper preparation of his body, which included the spices, etc. After the High Sabbath, came the   preparation day for the weekly Sabbath and still they couldn't return to the Tomb until it was over at 6pm and already dark according to the scriptures.  Remember Jewish days begin in the evening, not like the Gentile time at Midnight.  They left right away to the tomb to place the spices and various flowers, etc. with the body and found the tomb empty.
Not so fast, the scripture says this:
Mat 27:59  And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth ...
Mar 15:46  And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen ...
Luk 23:53  And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen ...
Joh 19:40  Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
While Matthew, Mark, and Luke state the body was wrapped in a clean linen cloth, John provides a more complete picture of what happened.  The burial practice was so common to these Jewish disciples they didn't think it necessary to mention it because it was common knowledge.

The job was hurried, and not done perfectly, but the purpose of the wrapping is preservation, and the spices were to prohibit the smell of decomposition.  Remember Lazarus, "after three days he stinketh!"
The linen was hard as a rock, and the cloth over the face was NOT a part of what is being called a shroud ... a term NOT found in the scripture related to this event.

I said: "Now for a little common sense. Have you ever seen a dead person in the coffin at a wake? Their muscles in there face no longer are held in place. Yet this image does not show the face sagging as it does in a normal death."
And your reply:
This was a body that had just been hit with the Resurrection Surge of power called the Schkinah Glory that was so powerful as to leave an imprint in the cloth.
This body had not just been hit with the Resurrection Surge of power, it was dead!  And it would remain dead for three days and three nights ... unless you don't believe Jesus when He said that.  You went on to say:
Don't you think this very evidence is so "unexplainable
Which basically says you have no explanation, to which I agree.

You accept a very timid view of scourging, liked they slapped Him around a bit then marched Him down to the cross after a cappuccino.  Most people died in the torture and never made it to the cross.  The art of crucifixion was to extract the mos pain and suffering you could get out of a person, bringing them to the point of death over and over again yet keeping them barely alive so that the finish could be done publicly on the cross.

It was crowd control, and it worked!  A few bruises on the face, a partial loosing of some beard hair ... whomever this guy was he rated!  because his torture was not very severe.  Jesus Christ, on the other hand, had the worst of the worst torturing Him, these guys were demon possessed and enjoyed torturing Jesus!  Believe me, He did not look as good as the image on the shroud of Turin.

The bottom line here is that you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.  I hope God reveals to you the truth so that you know it is the truth.

In the scheme of things whether this Catholic relic is or is not the real image of Jesus is so unimportant.  It is not His cup, or the stations of the cross, where He was or what He touched, or what He owned, that is important.

It is the fact that He died on the cross to pay for MY sins, and the sins of all who place their faith in His payment on the cross that matters.  Everything else is just a distraction.

worship not the created, but the creator!


PS on the "Resurrection surge part"  If this image was post ressurection then why was there any facial defects at all?   You can't have it both ways ...  Selah!