Marilyn Agee (12 Dec 2011)
"Kevin Heckle: "Lauren RE: M. Agee's birthdate of Jesus - THE FACTS""

From: Marilyn Agee
Re: Kevin Heckle (7 Dec 2011)
"Lauren RE: M. Agee's birthdate of Jesus - THE FACTS"
Thanks for your support.
It isn't easy figuring out when Jesus was born. I worked on it for years. I was lucky though. When I began, I told Dr. Ehlert, head librarian of the BIOLA library, La Mirada, CA, at the time, what I was attempting to do. He showed me where to find a Th.D Thesis by Leslie Madison, "Problems in Chronology in the Life of Christ" (Dallas Theological Seminary). That helped a lot, but I had to prove whether he was right or wrong in his conclusions. I can't remember his date, but if I remember right, I ended up with a different one. I read just about everything I could find on the dates of Jesus' birth and crucifixion in the Seminary Collection.
I don't think you really mean that. It is still future. Jesus didn't transgress at all. If the transgression of mankind was finished in 30 AD, Jerusalem and the Temple wouldn't have been burned in 70 AD, after 40 years of probation.
Re: the 40 years of probation, the "rabbis taught: During the last forty years before the destruction of the Temple the lot ['For the Lord'] did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson-colored strap become white; NOR DID THE WESTERN MOST LIGHT SHINE; and the doors of the Hekel [Temple] would open by themselves" (Soncino version, Yoma 39b)." "Talmudic Evidence for the Messiah at 30 C.E." by Nicholas Federoff


The Judgment on Jerusalem According to History

Heavenly phenomena - A star resembling a sword
- A comet (Halley's Comet)
- A bright light shining around the altar and the temple
- A vision of chariots and soldiers running around among the clouds and all cities of Palestine.
Earthly phenomena
(reported by priests)
- A quaking
- A great noise
- The sounds of a great multitude saying, "Let us remove hence." 

Source: The Last Days According to Jesus, R.C. Sproul

If Jesus had done away with transgression in 30 AD, we wouldn't have sin on Earth today. What about the Satan-possessed False Prophet sitting in the Temple Mid-Trib as if he were God? That's a sin. During the reign of the Beast and False prophet, there will be an "overspreading of abominations" (Dan 9:27).

Mt 24:15 says, "When ye see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place". That sin is still future today.

At the end of the Tribulation, God's Wrath will end the transgression and make an end of sin. The Beast and False Prophet will be thrown in the Lake of Fire.

Dan 9:27 (LITV) says, "And he (i.e., the Roman prince that shall come, the False Prophet) shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week (of years). And in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease. And on a corner of the altar will be abominations that desolate, even until the end. And that which was decreed shall pour out on the desolator" (i.e., on the Roman prince that shall come, the False Prophet).

> > The specific word Daniel uses for CUT-OFF is Strongs H3772 karath.  It means to CUT-OFF a body part, specifically relating to a covenant. In Jewish terms it means CIRCUMCISION.
In Dan 9, I think it means to perish, to be cut off from life, to be destroyed, killed. That happened at the Crucifixion in 30 AD.
Karath is translated destroy in Lev 26:42, which says, "I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, and DESTROY YOUR CATTLE (i.e., kill your cattle), and make you few in number; and your high ways shall be desolate." 
Strong's H3772, karath, A primitive root; to cut (off, down or asunder); by implication to destroy or consume; specifically to covenant (that is, make an alliance or bargain, originally by cutting flesh (i.e., killing an animal) and passing between the pieces): - be chewed, be con- [feder-] ate, covenant, cut (down, off), DESTROY, fail, feller, be freed, HEW (DOWN), make a league ([covenant]), X lose, PERISH, X utterly, X want.
> > I believe Jesus was specifically born on Julian day #1719337, exactly 34 solar years before His crucifixion. 
That would be the Julian Fri April 16, 6 BC (Nisan 29, 3755). I think he was born on Tishri 1, in 5 BC. According to the sign in Rev 12, where the new crescent Moon was under Virgo's feet, that Tishri 1 would be Sept 4, 5 BC.
Haggai 2:18,19 tells us that Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24. Therefore his birth on the following Tishri 1 makes sense.
I hope we will be taught how these things actually happened when we get to Heaven, hopefully on Dec 21, 2011, the first day of Hanukkah.

Marilyn Agee
Kevin Heckle (7 Dec 2011)
"Lauren RE: M. Agee's birthdate of Jesus - THE FACTS"

I know Marilyn will speak for herself, but I wanted to support her correct notion that Jesus was born in the 6 BC to 5 BC range.  While you have cited the passage in Luke, naming a certain year of Tiberius, it only REALLY identifies the year in which the Word of the Lord came to John the Baptist in the wilderness.  The culmination of this particular narrative is in verse 20 and it regards John the Baptist's imprisonment, which is the more likely reason for the date cited (marking the importance of his imprisonment to the early Christians).
John 2:20 makes the statement that the Temple had 'been in the building for 46 years' and according to the narrative it was before the time of Passover in that same year, not many days after Jesus turned water into wine.  This timeframe CERTAINLY marks the beginning of Jesus' ministry (John 2:11).  It is well documented that Herod's major expansion (BUILDING) of the Temple Mount platform and the expansion of the Temple itself began in 19 BC.  -19 + 46 = 27.  There is no year zero, so subtract 1 year and the ministry of Jesus began in the 25-27 AD timeframe, depending on how specifically long the 46 years was and what the definition of a year was. 
Jesus is declared the Christ (the Messiah or the Annointed) around 30 years of age, as you pointed out.
27 AD - 30 years -1(no year 0) = 4 BC Birthdate
26 AD - 30 years -1(no year 0) = 5 BC Birthdate
25 AD - 30 years -1(no year 0) = 6 BC Birthdate
This general timeframe then would agree with the historical FACT that Herod died in 4 BC.  While alive, upon his meeting with the Magi, Herod decreed the deaths of any child 2 years and under.  Jesus then had to be born at least in the 5-6 BC range being 1-2 years old prior to the likely imminent death of Herod, trying to secure the throne for his own offspring.
At this point, I have established TWO Biblical and historical facts confirming the pre- 4 BC birthdate of Jesus. 
Now lets look at the narrative in Daniel:
Dan 9:25-26 KJV - [25] Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore AND to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. [26] AND AFTER threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Notice there are TWO commandments, one to RESTORE and one to BUILD.  There are also TWO decrees by Artaxerxes.
According to Ezra 7:6-16 Artaxerxes makes a decree funding the restoration of Jerusalem.  The seventh year (verse 8) of Artaxerxes has been well established to be 457 BC.  The other decree of Artaxerxes regarding the building of Jerusalem is established by Nehemiah 2:1-8 which is the twentieth year of Artaxerxes reign in 444 BC. 
7 heptads + 62 heptads = 69 heptads (1 heptad = 7 years)
69 heptads = 69 * 7 = 483 years
So counting 483 years from 457 BC or 69 'weeks' from the decree to RESTORE unto Messiah the Prince comes to 25 or 26 AD.
Jesus was the ANNOINTED PRINCE which is the MEANING of MESSIAH, the Spirit descended upon Him like a dove at His baptism when he was about 30 years of age.  "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased".  This is the moment declared by GOD that Jesus was HIS SON, the ANNOINTED PRINCE, exactly 69 weeks of years after the decree to RESTORE Jerusalem in 457 BC by Artaxerxes, just as Daniel's prophecy said.
Now the second part:  AFTER 62 weeks, the Messiah shall be cut-off, but not for himself.
62 Weeks = 434 years
So here we have the Bible declaring that AFTER 62 weeks (of years) from the declaration to BUILD Nehemiah's Jerusalem wall in troubleous times, the Messiah would be cut-off, but not for his own necessity.
From 444 BC (second decree) plus 434 years is 10 BC.  The Bible says that sometime AFTER this 62 weeks that the Messiah would be cut-off.  If the Bible had intended that this event would happen AFTER 63 weeks of years it would have said, 'after sixty-three weeks'.  So between the 62nd full week and the 63rd week, the Messiah would be CUT-OFF.  Therefore, sometime between 10 BC and 3 BC the Messiah would be cut-off but not for his own necessity.  The specific word Daniel uses for CUT-OFF is Strongs H3772 karath.  It means to CUT-OFF a body part, specifically relating to a covenant.  In Jewish terms it means CIRCUMCISION in accordance with the Hebrew's covenant with the Lord.
Here is the Biblical use of CUT-OFF (H3772) relating to the act.
Exd 4:25a KJV - [25] Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off (H3772) the foreskin of her son.. .
Did the Son of God have a necessity to demonstrate the covenant with himself?  Not for himself.
Jesus kept ALL of the law and was circumcised on the 8th day after His birth (according to the Law). It EXACTLY fulfilled Daniel's declaration that the Messiah would be cut-off AFTER 62 weeks, an indication of His birthdate, NOT His death.  After all, He resurrected and NOTHING was cut-off at the crucifixion.  Jesus laid down His own life and Jesus raised it back up again.  
John 2:18-21 KJV - [18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? [19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. [20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? [21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
Its for another time, but I believe Jesus was specifically born on Julian day #1719337, exactly 34 solar years before His crucifixion.  
Kevin H.
For YOU to ponder:
Jesus ministry was a 3 to 3.5 year ministry.  So if both the Bible and historical fact show Jesus was declared His Son, Messiah the Prince by God at His baptism 69 weeks of years after the first decree, then why did the 70 weeks stop there at 69?  Or did it?  It can be shown that there are 69.5 weeks, or 486.5 ecllesiastical years (by the Hebrew Lunar year average of 364 days divisible by 7) from the first decree until the Crucifixion/Ressurrection.
It wasn't until the 19th century that scholars and commentators attributed Daniel 9:27 to anybody OTHER than Jesus Christ.  In the midst of a 7 (3.5 or so years) JESUS caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease FOREVER.  He confirmed a NEW COVENANT.  Upon His declaration "It is finished", the Temple veil was torn and the stones broken.  What purpose could animal sacrifice and other gifts upon that Temple alter, being OVERSPREAD with corruptions and abominations, EVER serve again?  Jesus FINISHED THE TRANSGRESSION, MADE AN END OF SINS, MADE RECONCILIATION FOR INIQUITY, ETC.  Does that sound familiar?  It is the PURPOSE Daniel gives in 9:24 for the 70 WEEKS.  All that there is left to do is bring in an everlasting righteousness and seal up the vision and the prophecy!  I challenge you to find ANYWHERE that the Great Tribulation is ANY timeframe other than a general 3.5 year period (1260 days, 1290 days, 1335 days, 42 months).  ALL that is left after this Age of Grace is complete is the WRATH and JUDGEMENT of GOD, which we Christians will NOT have to endure.