GM (13 Dec 2011)
"Re: AVG 3 ½ years?"

Re: AVG 3 ½ years?


Because I would like better clarity, myself, on this matter I offer a couple of answers to the questions you posed.  In being concise this may seem confrontational, apologies in advance.  It is clear a seven year period is forecast.  The starting point is the question.  Also, does God’s wrath pour out over seven or three and a half years?  I’ll finish looking at the Daniel verses.  Looking at your questions…


Where the Isaiah verses are concerned, the previous verses show that the “covenant with death” is formed by the “drunk” leaders and priests whom have represented God’s Word merely as “precept upon precept” and not  as Isa 28:12  To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.  They have made a covenant with pharisaic law (and some luciferians).  Who are the drunken leaders?  Isa 28:1  Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys of them that are overcome with wine!  Ephraim is northern, idolistic Israel, aka Tel-Aviv, the seat of government.
Alternately, the Oslo accords and any other agreement with the “Palestinians” is a covenant of lies and death.  Further, land for peace created a box for Israel which has necessitated “the Sampson option” as a doctrine, another covenant of death.  Sheol is a direct reference to Baal worship and human sacrifice.  That’s what the Sampson option is for both sides.


I don’t understand the TV commercial reference, but it has a mocking tone which is not your normal studious way.  No twisting of the Daniel verses is necessary; in fact it makes more sense in context.  It is unconventional, admittedly.


I haven’t really noticed the proponents of the “3 ½ year tribulation” slide or alter their timeline.  The idea seems hinged on three points; the 2008 US election, a 2015 consummation and an alternate reading of a few verses in Daniel (a sealed book until…).


As for more time required to implement the global system, they seem to be coming along quite nicely at this time.  The temple; they just finished one I believe.  If you know for certain what the abomination of desolation is in future form, please share?.


I love the example of Dr. Reagan.  It shows the importance and relative simplicity of taking the Word at face value and avoiding mushy spiritualized interpretation.  Thing is, that is not applicable to the interpretation of Daniel in question.  I’ll get to those verses below, but think about this.  Where are the AC and peace treaty directly mentioned in Dan 9:24-27?  Furthermore, why would God give dominion to set timing to the AC?  And, will he really allow for 3 ½ years of peaceful reign by the AC?  What are those horsemen doing all that time?  Do the birth pains stop for 3 ½ years?  Apologies, again.


So, Daniel Ch. 9…

Daniel is praying because he is disappointed his people have not yet returned to Jerusalem, as had been prophesied.  He implores God to honor His prophetic promise for God’s own sake (Dan 9:19).  Daniel confesses the sins of his people in hopes God will re-activate the eternal covenant made with the people of Israel.  This “covenant” is the subject of Daniel’s prayer and Gabriel’s answer.  Then, KJV Dan 9:24:


24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


The transgression is the revolt of the people Israel to God’s covenant.  Who will make an “end of sins”, reconciliation…etc?  It is Jesus Christ.  He does all of these things, offering the Holy Spirit to anoint our bodies as individual temples.  Jesus Christ is the answer to Daniel’s inquiry regarding the covenant of God. 


Dan 9:25:


25  Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


Messiah t-h-e Prince.  Messiah meaning the “Anointed One”; anointed of the Holy Spirit.


26  And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


Messiah, the prince, Jesus, will die on the cross.  To Israel, He is cut off after 3 ½ years of ministry. Not for himself because He was resurrected.  He is still a prince because He is not yet an earthly King.  From Daniel’s point of view Messiah is the “prince that shall come” and, after He is “cut off” from Israel, His people during the age of grace are the gentiles.  For reference YLT:


26And after the sixty and two weeks, cut off is Messiah, and the city and the holy place are not his, the Leader who hath come doth destroy the people; and its end [is] with a flood, and till the end [is] war, determined [are] desolations.


“…Leader (capital) who hath come doth destroy the people and its end is with a flood.”  


As the “L” in leader is capitalized it should reference Messiah and He has come at this point in the timeline.  As far as I know, Titus did not come with a flood nor die with one.  What flood?  The only still-prophesied flood is at the very end. 


Dan 9:27:


27  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


When Jesus came as God’s begotten son, God confirmed in the flesh His covenant with Daniel’s people.  It is confirmed for one week because it is Daniel’s 70th week.  At some point during Jesus’ ministry the red thread of the scapegoat sacrifice ceased turning white.  This means God no longer accepted it.  Because they continued to offer the sacrifice after the ultimate atoning sacrifice had been made, it was overspreading on the altar an abomination of a sacrifice.  After sending Jesus to the cross, much of what the Pharisees and priests did was an abomination.  The temple and altar will be desolate until the consummation.  The consummation will come with the wrath poured out (in the remaining 3 ½ years), the wrath that has been determined upon the desolate people/beast.


So, there it is; in context.  The subjects and theme of the message of Daniel Ch. 9 maintained throughout.  Daniel received an answer to his prayer about his people and the consummation of God’s covenant with them.  Daniel did not ask about the fulfillment of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream or the AC or a peace treaty.


Is this a perfect explanation?  Probably not.  I do believe it follows more closely the standards for interpretation that you laid out.  Can there be a dual fulfillment or understanding?  Possibly.  The AC will attempt to copy this pattern.  Whether it started in October 2008 is to be determined; easier or harder to believe every day? 


The Covenant, The Prince, The Anointed Messiah, The Consummation are the subject of Daniel’s final week. 


May G-d soften every heart possible, and save every softened heart...