Re: Barry Amundsen (14 Dec 2007) "Re: "Question for those who don't believe in OSAS" Bill Petrovic"

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/dec2007/barrya1214.htm

Just had to comment that I think Barry has done a wonderful job of answering the questions regarding the Once Saved Always Saved doctrine without being confrontational. I kept trying in my post yesterday and I couldn't find a way to not come off possibly sounding confrontational so I felt led to delete all I had said in answer to the questions and just included Bible verses. Conversely, Barry felt led to delete all of his Bible verses he had prepared and just speak from the heart, (as guided by the Holy Spirit.) Isin't it amazing how God works. And I do not want to offend any Brothers and Sisters in the Lord who go to a Church that teaches OSAS. It is not worth in my opinion, coming to blows over.

The only thing I thought of adding yesterday, which is different from a cogent answer or argument, so it shouldn't be divisive, is just asking if we can test this doctrine by looking at examples in the Bible?

Are there any examples where the OSAS doctrine could be said to be violated? Can it be falsified? And if so, can it still stand as a doctrine. Can each be explained away so the doctrine can still stand? Of course the examples would have to be incontrovertible in terms of being saved in the first place, and then incontrovertible in terms of no longer being saved.

1. satan and one third of the angelic host.

2. Adam and Eve

3. Solomon

4. John the Baptist

While others may be able to come up with different examples, remember, one, if proven, would suffice. My favorite is John the Baptist. I also think John the Baptist is the best example God gave us and probably because of that, the most controversial. But we have the testimony from God/Jesus himself:

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11

(It must be an important verse as it is in the first book of the New Testament, followed by 11 and 11, a lot of number 1's)

Those that are saved by the skin of their teeth and have entered the kingdom of heaven are greater that John the Baptist who won't be in heaven according to this scripture. But yet John gave testimony to the World that Jesus was the Lamb of God

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. John 1:29

John, the greatest among the Prophets, the one who through the Holy Spirit declared that Jesus was the Lamb of God who would take away the sin of the world, surely He was saved. John, the greatest of all born of women, who Jesus, the Son of God, put himself under submission to, to be Baptized so He could fulfill all righteousness. (I must give testimony that I got physical tears as I wrote this last sentence. The Living God, the God/Man, put himself under the submission of John. And John gave testimony that this was the Son of God).

And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. Hebrews 7:7

Is this how John could be the greatest born of women, greater than the Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus?

John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him. He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease. John 3:27-30

Boy, and did he decrease. He was put in prison and lost his head, literally. Before he lost his head he even doubted that Jesus was indeed the Christ, after he himself had first proclaimed to the World, by the Spirit of God, that Jesus was the Christ. John, who had the Spirit of God from even before he was born.

We have testimony that John doubted Jesus as he sent his disciples from prison to question Jesus on this subject.

Now when John had heard in the prison the works of Christ, he sent two of his disciples, And said unto him, Art thou he that should come, or do we look for another? Mark 11:2-3

Which brings us back to the first scripture:

An object lesson for us all.

Shalom,

Ted Porter