This
could get quite colorful, couldn’t it?
Your words are in red, my old words are in blue, and my current words
are in teal. How’s THAT for color
coordination? Now all you have to do is carry a color code sheet with you. :-)
PEGGY
: -). Yes Mam, it it is getting quite colorful isnt it. I think
we both will need a colorcode sheet from now on!! Laughing!!
I really appreciate youre input,and I acknowledge what you
say. Honestly there is still a part of me that believes in a pretrib
rapture. I just also think a later trib resurrection
is more than likely. Youre writing is in teal and mine is in Red.
Some of the Bible verses are red mixed with black and blue. :-)) Anyways
here it is.
Right… you can’t have both an UNKNOWN day and a KNOWN
day, unless His coming is in two stages, right? He’s either lying when He says that no
man can know the day or hour, then turns around and tells us, in exact days
when He’s returning… or He has two phases to His coming. How is “His coming” like a thief in the
night if He’s told us EXACTLY when to expect Him after certain events have
transpired????
Not true. If you notice,
When Jesus said -- I come like a thief --- His comment was directed
towards the later half of the tribulation. Read Rev 16: 14
through 16. See below in Black writing :-)
to gather them to
the battle of that great day of God Almighty ------- And he gathered them together into a place
called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Now heres a key question.
What verse is sandwhiched in between the verses where it says ----- the Battle
of that Great Day of GOD Almighty and gathered together into a
place called Armageddon ??? Here it is Rev
16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed
[is] he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they
see his shame.
So as you can see Jesus comes
like a thief towards the end of the tribulation.
He ( Paul) most
definitely IS part of the Church; what makes you think he doesn’t get raised
until the END of the TRIBULATION? I
think he will be raised at the END of the CHURCH AGE. Read 2nd Timothy 4 and its clear Paul is resurrected at the 2nd
coming. See my writing below.
I ( Paul ) testify before God and Christ Jesus, who is
about to judge living
and dead ( The dead believer, and Living believer
), and by his appearing ( 2nd coming ) and
his kingdom ,
Henceforth the crown of righteousness
is laid up for me, which the Lord, the righteous Judge,
will render to me in that day ( The Day of his Appearing ) ; but not only to me ( Paul, will be Dead on the day of the 2nd coming ) ,
but also to all who love his appearing (
All the living that witness the appearing of Christ will also be judged
and given the crown of righteousness ).
The
Church Age is the Age of Grace; the Tribulation is a 6-fold purpose FOR THE
JEWS (notice the context of these verses… he is conversing with Jews at this
point, not Gentiles):
Seventy
weeks are determined upon thy people (the
Jews) and
upon thy holy city (Jerusalem),
(1) to finish the transgression, and (2) to make an end of sins, and (3) to
make reconciliation for iniquity, and (4) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and (5) to seal up the vision and prophecy, and (6) to anoint the most Holy. (Daniel
9:24)
I agree with you and disagree, these verses you have,
concern Jews and Christians, and not just Jews alone. Read
the verses again to bring in everlasting righteousness, ----
and to make an end
of sins. Matthew 13:41 I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and
they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin
and all who do evil,
Matthew
24:31 they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven
with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great
sound of a trumpet, and
they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of
heaven to the other.
In Isaiah, we are told exactly who these
“elect” are. They are Israel,
not the Church. He will be sending
His angels to gather the elect remnant that He has protected through the Trib
(probably in Petra). Remember, in AD 70, He dispersed them throughout the
earth for their disbelief. But
when He returns, it says that ALL the Jews will be saved.
This is is true, The Jews were dispersed and are regathered and
when he returns all the Jews will be saved and including the righteous
saints. Dont count out the gentiles.
And He will lift up a standard for the
nations, and will assemble the banished ones of Israel, and will gather the
dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. (Isaiah 11:12)
I agree to
a certain degree: -) that the elect are the Jews. Salvation is of the
Jews. In this particular verse Matthew 24:31 though I
believe its Christians it is refering too.
My NIV notes say
The people of GOD. And here is a reference
verse Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will
rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the
elect.
Look at this explanation.
God's
covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is also God's covenant with each and
every Jewish person. Why?
Because God said, "in your seed all families of the earth shall be blessed."
The Jewish people ARE the seed
(descendants) of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Therefore, the Jews are God's chosen vehicle through whom He
blesses ALL humankind.
Jesus Christ fulfills this promise
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew
nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor
female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Matthew 5:5 Blessed [are]
the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
When Jesus comes with the clouds
of Heaven all Christians are gathered not just Jews.
Galatians 3 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ
Jesus. ---- And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and
heirs according to the promise.
John
8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto
them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
We are all Abrahams children, Christians
Daniel 7:22 Until the Ancient
of days came, ((((Daniel 7:13 the
Son of man came with the clouds of heaven,))))(((( Daniel
7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a
kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve
him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.))))) and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and
the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
1 Thess 1:7 - 10 When the Lord Jesus
shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, ------
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all
them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that
day.
You have the
wrong set of verses here, TJ Thank you. Sorry
2 Thess 1:7 - 10
It was also about these
men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold,
the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly
of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of
all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him." (Jude
1:14-15)
Actually ive researched that alittlebit
and Holy-ones in that verse (From JUDE) could be in reference to Angels.
Deuteronomy 34:2
And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he
shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from
his right hand [went] a fiery law for them.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end
of heaven to the other.
Do me a favor a read these verses
you sent me again. Im using Youngs translation, from readingthese do
you still get the same reading.
When Christ, who
is our life, is revealed, then you also
will be revealed with Him in glory. (Colossians
3:4)
COL 3:4 when the Christ -- our life
-- may be manifested, then also we with him shall be manifested in glory.
so that He may establish
your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at
the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.
(1 Thessalonians 3:13)
1 Thess 3:13 to the establishing your hearts
blameless in sanctification before our God and Father, in the presence of
our Lord Jesus Christ with all His saints.
For if we believe
that Jesus died and rose again, even so God
will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. (1 Thessalonians 4:14)
1 Thess 4:14 for if we believe that Jesus died
and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with
him, Also
concerning 1 Thess 4:14 - 17 these verses clearly take place at the 2nd
coming. And How could the dead return with Christ as they are being caught
up while he is decending? That makes no sense at all. In Acts 2 Jesus
ascends and in 1 Thess he descends
1 THESS 4
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that
we who are alive [and] remain to
the coming of the Lord shall not precede
them who are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall
descend from heaven ( ACTS 1:11 Which also said,
Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is
taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen
him go into heaven. ) REV 1:7 Look! He comes with the clouds of heaven.
And everyone will see him--even those who pierced him. And all the nations
of the earth will weep because of him. Yes! Amen ) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the trump of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive [and] remain
shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the
air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
NEXT
1st CRN 15:21
So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, Adam, now
the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man, Christ.
15:22 For as in
Adam all die, even so in Christ ------ shall all be made alive.
15:23 But there is an order to this resurrection:
Christ was raised first; then when Christ comes back, all his people will
be raised.
Verse
23 doesn’t say ALL His people will be raised; it says “Those who are Christ’s
at His coming”… WE, the Church, are those who are Christ’s. I
gotch ya. This isnt during the pretrib.like you say it is. Read
further Then [cometh] the end, when he shall
have delivered up the kingdom to God even the Father; when he shall have
put down all rule and all authority and power......
The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death. ( This doesnt take place before the start of the tribulation )
The OT believers were counted righteous totally by
their faith in the future Messiah, as they were still under the Law
until Yeshua’s blood fulfilled the Law.
So when they died, they died under the Law. The OT believer is NOT included with the
Church. That’s why there is
a distinction made between the Bride of Christ, and those who will be guests
at the Wedding Feast. Going
in chronological order through Revelation, the Wedding of the Lamb occurs
IN HEAVEN, where the Bride makes herself ready, then Christ returns WITH
His Bride. After Armageddon,
the wedding feast occurs. Who
are these wedding “guests” if not the OT Saints and believers from the Trib? Since we (the Church) are the Bride, You
KNOW the guests are believers from somewhere, or they wouldn’t be invited
to the Wedding Feast. He is going to BRING US WITH HIM when He returns TO EARTH
at the end of the Trib, so the 2nd Coming and the Rapture can’t
possibly be the same event.
Why would there be two resurrections
for the faithful? There is one resrrection. John 11: 25 Jesus
said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in
me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
1st Crn 15: 22 For since by man ( Adam) [came] death, by man (JESUS) [came] also the resurrection of the dead.
REV 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath
no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign
with him a thousand years.
The OT believer is NOT included with the Church
The old testament believer is included with the New testament
believer
Hebrews 11:39 And these all (old testament believers), having obtained a good report through
faith, received not the promise: 11:40 God having provided some
better thing for us, (the resurrection) that
they without us should not be made perfect.
2nd Corinthians 1:20 For all of God's
promises have been fulfilled in him. That is why we say "Amen" when
we give glory to God through Christ.
Hebrews 11