TJ (16 Dec 2005)
"TO PEGGY  :-)"

 
PEGGY
 
 
Peggy youre writing is in blue italics and underline.  Mine is in red.   Thank you for the response.
 
No you misunderstood me,  This is what the the pretrib view says ---  that the Church dead and living are both raised before the 7 year period begins or starts.    Then later the  Old testament believer is then raised  at the 2nd coming of Christ with and including the Martyerd tribulation saints ----- also those who are living that made it through the Great trib at the 2nd Coming of Christ will be raised.  That is the pre trib view. 
 
 
Now what I was trying to say is that Paul being part of the New testament,   is  clearly raised at the 2nd coming of Christ.   He cannot be raised both at the begining of the 7 year period and then also the end of the great tribulation if he is considered part of the Church.    Well he is part of the Church if he is a apostle of Christ right ?    Let me reiterate,  Clearly he is resurrected at the end of the great tribulation when Jesus returns.  If so then this prooves the New Testament beliver is raised at the 2nd coming.
 
Also let me add  I already knew  that all the dead that are not of Christ are resurrected later and sent to everlasting damnation.

The dead in Christ and the dead not in Christ are two different sets of people.  It is the dead in Christ who are Raptured when the living in Christ are Raptured. Revelation 20:5 tells us the rest of the dead do not come to life until the end of the THOUSAND YEARS.  If all the dead are raised at the same time, why would He make a distinction by saying “the REST of the dead”? And Daniel will not be raised to life until the 2nd Coming. 

 
 
Jesus raises up Old Testament believer and New testament believer at the last day.  As in Paul and Daniel.
 
 
John 6:40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
 
 
Matthew 24 they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 
 
 

Daniel and the other OT Saints were not part of the Church, in fact, the Church was still a mystery to him.  Remember, the Marriage of the Lamb (to His Bride, the Church) takes place in HEAVEN, and then we return WITH Him. Then the OT Saints will be raised, and after the Battle of Armageddon, they will go into the Wedding Supper with us, and the rest of the Saints from all times.  

 
 
The Old Testament believers could not receive the promise until the sacrifice of Jesus Christ who is the promise, the life, and the resurrection.     The Old testament believer became redeemed through Jesus Christ with us the Church  when he was crucified.   Furthermore the Old testament prophets knew of the kingdom and that Christ, The Annoited One would bring it to them in the future.  Also GOD told  Abraham about the gospel thousands of years in advance.    The Old testament believer is included with the Church.
 
Hebrews 11:39 And these all (old testament believers), having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:   11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, ( the resurrection through Christ) that they without us should not be made perfect.  the resurrection through Christ
 
 2nd Corinthians 1:20 For all of God's promises   have been fulfilled in him. That is why we say "Amen" when we give glory to God through Christ.
 
Romans 8:17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with {Him} so that we may also be glorified with {Him.}
 
 
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.   3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 
 
The promise is everlasting life which we as Christians inherit the kingdom of Christ, and reign with him.  
 
 

 Remember, the Marriage of the Lamb (to His Bride, the Church) takes place in HEAVEN, and then we return WITH Him.    Im not so sure about that one----  there is a verse that counters that.  Think about this?  If we were to return with him then how could he come to be glorified in his Saints, if we are already with him when he comes (2nd coming)?

1 Thess 1:7 - 10   When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,    ------  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

 

 Then the OT Saints will be raised, and after the Battle of Armageddon, they will go into the Wedding Supper with us, and the rest of the Saints from all times.   It is the dead in Christ who are Raptured when the living in Christ are Raptured.  Then Paul must be an Old testament Saint? You are saying in a sense that Paul is an Old Testament saint.  Paul is not resurrected until the 2nd coming.

 

 

The write of Ephesians, when he talks about marriage, says it is a mystery [becoming one, as a wife becomes one with her husband and vice versa], but He is speaking of Christ and the Church (Ephesians 5:32), not Christ and ALL Saints.   Yes, i read where it says the Church is a mystery. But Moses knew about Christs greater riches and that he would gain by suffering.

 

Hebrews 11:26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he (Moses) looked to the reward.

 

Also David who is an old testament believer was aware of the resurrection  Acts 2:31   David was looking into the future and predicting the Messiah's resurrection. He was saying that the Messiah would not be left among the dead and that his body would not rot in the grave.

 

1 Thessalonians 4 addresses Christians, and in specific, 4:17 states “… the dead IN CHRIST” shall rise first.   Read Hebrews 11:39, 40 again and 1st Corinthians 1:20. The old testament believer obtains a better resurrection together with us through Christ.

 

For all of God's promises   have been fulfilled in him. That is why we say "Amen" when we give glory to God through Christ.

1st CRN 15:21  So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, Adam, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man, Christ.

 
 
15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ ------ shall all be made alive.
 
 
15:23 But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised first; then when Christ comes back, all his people will be raised.
 
When Christ returns ( 2nd coming)  all his people will be raised.  NOT THAT THEY WILL BE RAISED BEFORE HE RETURNS.  CLEARLY AT HIS 2ND COMING, WILL WE BE RAISED. 
 
In response to the wrath of GOD verses you sent me.  See below.

2nd Thess 1
 
 
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:   
 
[Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:   
 
 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;   
 
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
 
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

GOD BLESS. SISTER. IN THE NAME OF CHRIST JESUS.
 
T.J.