PEGGY

 

Youre writing is in italics and underline

 

 

After Chapter 5 of Revelation (where the “redeemed” are waiting for the first seal to be opened… only those of us who have accepted the sacrifice of Christ’s blood are redeemed;), the Church is not mentioned again until Revelation 19, where it tells us that the Bride is READY for the Wedding of the Lamb, clothed in fine linen, bright and clean.  Then, starting in verse 11, the “armies of Heaven” return WITH Him to earth… clothed in fine linen, bright and clean.

 

 

If the Church is raptured before the start of the final 7 year period,  and the living tribulation saints are present when Jesus returns, why

 

# 1 Why would Paul being part of the Church, be raptured with ( according to the pretrib theory, the living tribulation saints ) in (Timothy 4:1, 8 )   at the appearing or 2nd coming of Jesus?  If there is a pretrib rapture then wouldnt it make sense for  Paul to  be part of the raptured church at the begining of the final 7 year period with the Church, and not at the 2nd coming?

 

# 2  When 1 Thess 4 says the dead will be resurrected together with the living----  this takes place at the 2nd coming.     (Why would the Church living and dead, be raptured ) before the dead old testament believer is raptured with the living tribulation saints at the end of the tribulation at the 2nd coming of Christ?   It says the dead shall rise first then we which  are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds.  But the dead includes New testament  Paul and old testament Daniel ??? 

 

 

In Jude, we are told that Christ returns WITH tens of thousands of His saints.  We are told above that the Wedding has already taken place; doesn’t it stand to reason that the Bride is in Heaven WITH Him before He returns?

 

As far as Jude is concerened  it does sound as if the saints return with Jesus at the 2nd coming but if you compare this verses with the verses below it says Jesus returns to be glorified in his saints.

 

Futhermore the old testament believer is included with the new testament believer. I believe they are one with the Church.

 

 

1 Thess 4:15  At the coming of the Lord

 

1 Thess 4:16  The Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

 

1 Thess 4:17  ( Then the DEAD and the LIVING )  shall be caught up together in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

1 Thess 1:7 - 10   When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,    In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; ----------

 

------  When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

 

 

Daniel 7: 21, 22 :::   I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;   Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

 

 

 

GOD BLESS. T.J.

 

 

 

Peggy

 

 

Paul  is  a  New  Testament  believer.   So because  of  this  then  you  must  consider  Paul  a  part  of  the  Church.   In Verse #1  Paul says that The Lord  Jesus,  will judge the dead and the living at his appearing----  and kingdom.   

 

 In Verse #2   Paul  says  that  The  Lord  Jesus, The  righteous  judge shall  on  the  day  of  his  appearing  give  Paul  a  crown,  and  not  only  to him  ( Paul  who  will  be  dead  on  that  day )   but also  to  the  living  who loves  ( Jesus )  appearing. 

 

So  according  to  the  pretribulation rapture  theory,  if  Paul  is  part  of  the Church, Then  he  must  be  gone  with  the  Raptured  Church --- before  the  final  seven  year  period  begins.   But  from  reading  the  two  verses  it  says  this  doesnt  happen  until  Jesus Appears  with his  kingdom ----- which  is  the  millenial  kingdom.  Jesus  judges  the dead  and  living  at  his  appearing  and  kingdom. 

 

 

VERSE #1:::   I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at* His appearing and ------ His kingdom:

 

VERSE #2 :::  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

 

 

Now with all this match with 1 Thess 4:14 through 17. When Jesus decends from Heaven ( his appearing),  The dead and living are caught up together in the clouds.  

 

1 Thess 4:14 - 17

 

For if we believe that Jesus has died and has risen again, so also God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus.

 

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

 

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

 

GOD BLESS. T.J.