John Clark (14 Dec 2005)
"RE: "The 400 Years: ...""


RE: "The 400 Years: Abraham was free, and in the Promised Land 378 years before the Exodus."
 
 
 
Jovial stated:
 
"There were several math errors that were performed at http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/dec2005/johnc1212.htm in an attempt to "prove" that there was some sort of 400 contiguous period in which Israel was enslaved as a stranger in another nation. Let me correct these problems.
First off, the post said Isaac was born in 2048 (years after Adam) when Abraham was 90. Sarah was 90 when the promise was given, Abraham was 99, making him 100 when Isaac was born and thus Isaac was born in 2058, not 2048. "
 
My response:
 
I see what your problem is Jovial. You have a tendency to add or subtract from what you are reading. You need to learn to trust and understand what is actually stated. If you reread the above response, you'll discover that I never stated that Abraham was 90 years old. I did present the following complete scriptures without editing:
 
Gen 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared! to Abram, and said unto him, I [am] the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. ...
 
Gen 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.
 
Isaac is born 2048 years from Adam, exactly 400 years prior to the Children of Israel leaving Egypt. There is no " theory" about it. Check the Scriptures, history, and Jasher. Therefore fulfilling:
 
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
 
Act 7:6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat [them] evil four hundred years.
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Ninety years old and nine equals 99 plus one more year for "next year". Abraham was 100 years old and Isaac was still born 2048 years from Adam and exactly 400 years before the beginning of the Exodus. I guess some people have difficulty comprehending King James. (I never edit the Scriptures. They are "copy and paste" from the Blue Letter Bible.).
 
Let's stick with math for a while. Jovial stated:
 
"Also, in Gen 15, God said they would come out of Egypt in the FOURTH GENERATION of their slavery. There was a lot more than 4 generations from Isaac to Moses, but exactly 4 during the 215 year period Israel was enslaved when Moses led them out. In fact, trying to mate 400 years with 4 generations is simply impossible. That would mean the average birth would be at 100, and it happened at that age only once. But 4 generations over 215 years - pretty easy there! That makes the average birth at age 54, which is! very doable."
 
 
My response:
 
It is my personal opinion that it is ridiculous and futile for anyone to set a specific number of years as a "generation." Here is what Easton's Bible Dictionary says about "Generation.":
 
"The Hebrews seem to have reckoned time by the generation. In the time of Abraham a generation was an hundred years, thus: Gen 15:16 "In the fourth generation" = in four hundred years ( 13 and Exd 12:40 In Deu 1:35 and Deu 2:14 a generation is a period of thirty-eight years.
 
In Mat 1:17 the word means a succession or series of persons from the same stock."
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Throughout the ages, the definition in relationship to Matthew is the only one that is valid in all cases. Let's use a "Generation" as a series of persons from the same stock. I will adhere to a methodology not of my own making but one which is demonstrated in the New Testament genealogies (utilizing both mothers and fathers). Let's begin with the original Scripture.
 
Gen 15:16 But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full.
 
I am sure that you would agree that Isaac would be the first generation and Jacob/Israel would be the second. I doubt if you would argue that Levi would be the third generation.
 
Exd 6:16 And these are the names of the sons of Levi according to their generations, Gershon and Kohath and Merari:
 
Exd 6:18 And the sons of Kohath; Amram, and Izhar, and Hebron, and Uzziel:
 
Exd 6:20 And Amram took him Jochebed his father's sister to wife; and she bare him Aaron and Moses: and the years of the life of Amram [were] an hundred and thirty and seven years.
 
Therefore, Jochebed (Moses mother) is the daughter of Levi and the sister of Kohath, making her the fourth generation. Her husband Amram would be a fifth generation along with her sons (Aaron and Moses) and her daughter (Miriam). There is no record, to my knowledge, as to when Jochebed died (In the "Movie" she leaves Egypt with Moses. LOL!). But the Scripture clearly indicates (Genesis 15:16) that someone in this "fourth generation" made it past Passover. This is not "impossi! ble" as you suppose, if you only believed in what the Scripture actually says.
 
 
Jovial states:
 
"So 378 years before the Exodus, Abraham, Isaac and familiy were living as free men in the Promised Land, not being servants to anyone. Was he persecuted? He was on such good terms with his neighbors they tried to GIVE him a burial place for Sarah. Just no record of persecution going on in Genesis 23 either. In fact, they told him "you are a might prince among us." (Gen 23:6). Sounds like he's in good standing with those around him!!!!"
 
 
My response:
 
Gen 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
 
Gen 15:13 And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land [that is] not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;
 
Gen 15:14 And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come! out with great substance.
 
Act 7:6 And God spake on this wise, That his seed should sojourn in a strange land; and that they should bring them into bondage, and entreat [them] evil four hundred years.
 
 
!
If you are willing to accept God's Word, without adding or subtracting one's own bias, you will discover that these prophecies are very nonspecific. It prophesies that Abraham's Seed would be greatly multiplied, but it does not tell you how this will be accomplished. Abraham simply believed God. It tells us that his Seed will be a stranger in a land that is not their own. It does not tell us which land or who the rulers of that land are. It states that his Seed will be "afflicted." And all of these things will transpire over 400 years. It does not specifically state whether the affliction is continuous for 400 years, but it might be. It does seem to indicate that they will not have ownership of "a land" for a 400 year period. But after 400 years the people they have served will be judged and will give Abraham's Seed "great substance." Please remember that all punctuation comes from the interpreter and by simply placing a comma can alter a meaning either intended or not.
 
Prior to the Exodus, Abraham and his Seed did spend time in Canaan. But it was not their land at that time, and they lived in movable tents. They sojourned, they did not "lay down roots". And you are totally in error if you think that he was always on good terms with those who occupied that land. In Genesis 20 Abimelech takes Sarah thinking she is Abrahams sister. (She was probably pregnant with Isaac at that time, after Abraham circumcision in Genesis 17 and Isaac's birth in Genesis 21.). Abraham then digs a well called Beer-Shebe and the Philistines steal it. Isaac experiences famine in Gerar (Genesis 26) and Jacob is chased, ("running for his life,") repeatedly by his brother Esau (Edom).
 
 
To my great surprise, I discovered today that Matthew Henry even agrees with my interpretation. LOL!
 
"2.) The continuance of their sufferings-four hundred years. This persecution began with mocking, when Ishmael, the son of an Egyptian, persecuted Isaac, who was born after the Spirit, ch. 21:9; Gal. 4:29 .It continued in loathing; for it was an abomination to the Egyptians to eat bread with the Hebrews, ch. 43:32; and it came at last to murder, the basest of murders, that of their new-born children; so that, more or less, it continued 400 years, though, in extremity, not so many. This was a long time, but a limited time. "
 
"3. The deliverance of Abram's seed out of Egypt. That great event is here foretold: Afterwards shall they come out with great substance. It is here promised, (1.) That they should be enlarged: Afterwards they shall come out; that is, either after they have been afflicted 400 years, when the days of their servitude are fulfilled, or after the Egyptians are judged and plagued, then they may expect deliverance. Note, The destruction of oppressors is the redemption of the oppressed; they will not let God's people go till they are forced to it. (2.) That they should be enriched: They shall come out with great substance; this was fulfilled, Ex. 12:35 ,36. God took care they should have, not only a good land to go to, but a good stock to carry with them."
 
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As I mentioned in my first reply on this topic, I really do not want to debate specific dates, because I know that it would be futile. Everyone's "counting" can vary a year or two. I have used the work of a doctor Steven Jones, Ph.D. as a "template," but do not consider his work as "Gospel." But when God says 400 years or 430 years, you can guarantee that He will be precise. If there was any " time gap" he would tell us, and would not let us use the "smorgasbord" method of prophecy interpretation. Let's return to what God ! has actually said without adding or subtracting our presumptions. All the charts and graphs are simply wood, hay, and stubble.
 
Shalom, John