Amy VanGerpen (22 Aug 2011)
"RE: Mike C and Luis Veg - Dividing the land"

 
Greetings Mike, Luis and Doves,
 
There seems to have been an assumption made by many that the dividing of Israel foretold in Joel 3:2 will be the basis for the covenant confirmed by the antichrist.  This has led many to believe that the meeting at the UN next month will be the confirming of the covenant of Daniel 9 and dividing the land as foretold in Joel 3.  However, there are several problems with that postulation:
 
1. The covenant of Daniel 9 has last for 3 1/2 years and also has to have provisions for a sanctuary/temple, as the defiling of the sanctuary is what breaks the covenant.
 
2. The creation of a Palestinian state being the confirmed covenant contradicts the outcome of the Psalm 83 War, in that Israel virtually annihilates the Palestinians and vastly increases their borders.  This would obviously break the covenant or peace treaty made with the Palestinians. 
 
The Psalm 83 War appears best to take place near the beginning of the Tribulation.  It cannot be in the middle of the Tribulation, as the antichrist is on his campaign conquering Israel, while the Jewish remnant flees to the wilderness.  The war cannot be at the end of the Tribulation, as ALL the nations are involved; not just Israel's neighbors.  Christ Himself will fight that last battle, wheras God uses Israel as His weapon in the Psalm 83 War against her neighbors.  Also, the land east of the Jordan will be part of Israel before the Gog and Magog War, because Gog is said to be buried in Israel there in Ezekiel 39.
 
3. The land division of Joel 3:2 should not be assumed to be that of a Palestinian state, as we are told explicitly that the antichrist will divide the land for gain during his conquests:
 
Daniel 11:39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.
 
4. The covenant in Daniel 9 will not be forced.  A parallel passage speaking about the covenant during the time of the Tribulation shows that Israel will choose to take refuge in the covenant rather than God.  This suggests the covenant comes after a war:
 
Isaiah 28:14 ...hear the word of the LORD, you scornful men, Who rule this people who are in Jerusalem, Because you have said, "We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we are in agreement. When the overflowing scourge passes through, It will not come to us, For we have made lies our refuge, And under falsehood we have hidden ourselves."
 
Isaiah 28:18 & 22 Your covenant with death will be annulled, And your agreement with Sheol will not stand; When the overflowing scourge passes through, Then you will be trampled down by it... Now therefore, do not be mockers, Lest your bonds be made strong; For I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts, A destruction determined even upon the whole earth. 
 
5. God said clearly in Ezekiel 36 that when He gave back the "ancient heights" to Israel, that there would never be a time again that God's chosen people would not live there: 
 
Ezekiel 36:12 My people Israel; they shall take possession of you [the mountains of Israel/the ancient heights], and you shall be their inheritance; no more shall you bereave them of children."
 
I find it interesting that the Palestinians were given control over Gaza and all the Jews were kicked out.  But the same has not happened in the West Bank or the Golan Heights.  I believe this passage in Ezekiel 36 tells us that this cannot not happen.  In other words, something will prevent the expulsion of the Jews from their settlements in the West Bank. 
 
If it should actually happen, a forced UN plan could be the straw that breaks the camel's back.  I believe the rapture would come in short order, which would bring the world into chaos and effectively take the focus off of enforcing any plan that would create a Palestinian state.  In response, Israel's neighbor's would take advantage of the global chaos and form the confederacy described in Psalm 83.  In the aftermath of the war, the man who will become the antichrist would step forward and broker a deal that allows Israel to build a temple and keep the land they won. 
 
The land won in the Psalm 83 war perfectly describes the covenant land promised to Abraham.  What would the antichrist and the "many" who agree to let Israel take all the land and build a temple get in return for confirming such a covenant?  Perhaps Israel will be forced to lay down her weapons.  I also believe the antichrist is agreeing so he can rule over a larger Iraq/Syria as "king of the north". (And who wants nuclear wasteland anyway?)  This would be the perfect set up to leave Israel vulnerable for the Gog and Magog War, with Israel living at peace with her immediate neighbors. 
 
I have put together a comprehensive summary from my larger studies on this topic that shows why the current "piece plan" with the Palestinians can never come to fruition (or fall flat on it's face immediately after it's inception if actually forced).  I also show how the Abrahamic land covenant better fits the covenant confirmed in Daniel 9.  This study is complete with Scripture and maps:
 
http://www.trackingbibleprophecy.org/speculation.php
 
Maranatha!
Amy Van Gerpen
 
 
 
 
Michael Colunga (20 Aug 2011)
"Eretz Israel"

 
Hello, John and Doves,
 
Note that if the Jews are forced to evacuate to Petra, then that place is still well within the bounds of Eretz Israel.  Thus, according to the Word of God in Isaiah 40:1-2, there will be no more diasporas.  There can only be a temporary sheltering in the eastern part of God's land.  [Leviticus 25:23 and Joshua 1:1-5]
 
Baruch HaShem Yeshua,
Mike C.
 
Luis Vega (19 Aug 2011)
"The Palestinian State"

   

The Palestinian State

A Comprehensive Timeline of Daniel’s possible End-Times Scenario
“I will gather the armies of the world into the valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will judge them for harming my people, my special possession, for scattering my people among the nations, and for dividing up My Land.” –Joel 3:2
 
NAME: Palestina; Arabic: فلسطين‎ Filasṭīn
ORIGIN: Cognate of the word "Philistines"
CAPITAL: East Jerusalem
LAND: Gaza & West Bank territories
POPULAITON: 3.3 mil Gaza & West Bank - 3.0 mil in Jordan refugees
REGION: Mediterranean Sea & Jordan River
 
The next 66th UN General Assembly Meeting starting on September 13, 2011 will be debating between the 21-23rd & the 26-30th (Rosh Hashanah) the Palestinian people’s question of statehood.  It can be found under the UN’s Provisional Agenda, Section B. Maintenance of International Peace and Security, Item 36. Question of Palestine (Resolutions 65/13 to 65/16).
 
President Mahmoud Abbas will seek a UN Resolution to that affect & also wants East Jerusalem as their capital. Some say that just a UN Resolution does not have any bearing on a Nation-State’s legitimacy but it can be a stepping-stone to eventual sovereign statehood, which means that Israel’s land will eventually be divided as foretold by the Book of Joel.

 

The Timeline (PDF) Link below is suggestive only. IF the UN Does ratify & recognize Palestine during this ‘Time” at Rosh Hashanah, as an Independent & Sovereign Nation -then this event could be Daniel’s “Confirming of the Covenant” of the Last Prophetic Week yet to be fulfilled.  The UN Resolution & Ratification of Statehood for Palestine will most likely be in exchange for “Peace & Security” for Israel to be ‘guaranteed’ for at least a 7 Year period as *Obama proposes a 7-Year Land Lease peace deal between Israel/Palestinians at the expense of dividing Israel’s land.