Re: 2015 vs.
2016, 2017, 2018 and beyond...
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2010/stefenl86.htm
Stefen Lopez's
post must have reached the hearts and minds
of many on Five Doves. I am saying this based on the number
of responses
the following day. Some of these responses may be earnest
questions. Others may be merely “damage control” for their
own
particular pre-held end time beliefs. If so, I don’t think
anything
I can say would persuade them otherwise. For others who are
still looking
at the facts and trying to decide which end time scenario best fits
those
facts, I am writing this post. So now, let us reason together.
Regarding the
points and questions brought up by Matt in his
response:
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2010/mattm87.htm
I’ll need to
respectfully disagree. In
particular:
Re:
Sept 2015 - 2nd Coming of Jesus article
Daniel
9:24,25
which says 7 weeks from the command to restore and build Jerusalem...and
that occurred on June 7, 1967
George or somebody...answer this...
What "decree" went out on June 7th, 1967?
What "command" went out on the day?
HMMM???
What historical records record a "decree" going out on that
day????????
Interesting.
Can it be denied that the “6-day
war”, started on June 5th, 1967? Can
it be denied that
at the start of this war, Jerusalem
had not yet
been restored to Israel
and Israel’s
enemies were amassing on its borders, preparing to invade?
Can it be
denied that during this war, Israeli leaders “decreed” a
counteroffensive and the restoration of Jerusalem
to Israel
as a prime objective? Can it be denied that Israeli ground
forces and
troops were “commanded” to recapture Jerusalem?
Or did Israeli forces
capture Jerusalem
without being “commanded” by their leaders to do so? Did
Israeli forces go against orders and just happen to restore Jerusalem
to Israel
without being first commanded to do so, on June 7, 1967? I
don’t
think so! The proof is in the pudding. We know what
the leaders of Israel
decreed and commanded because we know
what Israel
did. And what was decreed, came to pass.
Now if nothing
significant to the Jewish people happened on
June 7, 1967, why from that date forward do the Jewish people celebrate
the
anniversary of that date on the Jewish calendar? I’m sorry,
they
are not celebrating the date two years later of June 7, 1969 on the
Jewish
calendar. Wasn’t even the same date on their
calendar. I’m
also sorry, but Israel
did
not wait till two years later on June 7, 1969 to begin to rebuild Jerusalem.
They
began immediately after they had gained possession.
Okay, I’ve
researched into the past regarding June 7,
1969 and found no significant event. I did find that the
Knesset had
authorized expenditures on various buildings in Old Jerusalem to
“restore”
them. But even this was issued months before June 7,
1969. And this
could hardly be called Biblically significant. In the first
fulfillment before
Jesus Christ’s first coming, there was an event that was
significant.
Remember, Jerusalem
was not under the control of
Israel.
Jerusalem
did
not belong to the Jews. It took the “decree” of a foreign
king who ruled over Jerusalem,
through the efforts of Nehemiah. Never was Jerusalem
restored through recapture by the
Jewish nation, to foretell the first coming of Jesus Christ.
In fact Jerusalem
never again belonged to the nation of Israel
from the
time of Daniel’s prophecy till 1967.
Regarding
pushing back the start of the seven sevens timing
for Jesus Christ’s second coming by two years from June 7, 1967 to June
7, 1969. Or for that matter, any time in 1969. I
can’t see
how anything in 1969 rises to the fulfillment of any part of Daniel’s
70
weeks, except by people trying to force fit this prophetic scripture in
Daniel backward
from 2017 and they somehow arrive at June 7, 1969.
Of course
another person’s objection that Daniel’s
prophecy concerning the timing of the coming of the Messiah has already
been
completely fulfilled, would mean they either do not believe the Messiah
is
coming again, or that Daniel’s prophecy regarding the coming of the
Messiah does not apply to His second coming. Either way, I
don’t
agree.
Know
therefore and understand, that from
the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem
unto the
Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:
the
street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous
times. Daniel
9:25
Now regarding
September 23, 2015 for the Second coming.
I’ve been looking earnestly at this date since 2003. I know a
lot
of people in the past have said that if one could know the date of the
Second
coming, one could just count back seven years or 2520 days and we would
see the
man known as the lawless one confirming his “binding” agreement with
“many”. If the “many” will put “the lawless
one” in power, then he must have promised to do something for them,
like
bring peace.
Although Daniel
9:27 doesn’t speak of peace:
And
he shall confirm the covenant with
many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the
sacrifice
and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he
shall
make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined
shall be
poured upon the desolate. Daniel
9:27
Daniel 8:25
does:
And
through his policy also he shall cause
craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his
heart, and by
peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of
princes;
but he shall be broken without hand. Daniel
8:25
What we also
know, is this “lawless one”, will
be making a binding agreement or “covenant” with “many”.
This type of agreement, not one to one, but one to many, where many
people would
need to cast their lots, or vote, was fairly uncommon in the times of
Daniel.
But today we refer to it as the “republican” or “representative”
process coupled with the “democratic” process that originally selects
these “representatives”. Many people in “free” countries
“elect” one person to “represent” them instead of
personally voting on everything themselves.
Now, agreed,
this “lawless one” could not be
elected to just any position. This person would have to be
elected to a
position qualifying as the book of Daniel’s last ruler on earth, the
ruler
of iron and clay, well at least the ruler of iron amongst the clay.
And
whereas thou sawest the feet and toes,
part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided;
but
there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou
sawest the
iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were
part of iron,
and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly
broken.
And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle
themselves
with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as
iron is
not mixed with clay. And in the days of these kings shall the
God of
heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the
kingdom shall
not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume
all these
kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Daniel
2:41-44
Which means the
nations of the earth at the end of this age
will be divided. Some of them will be strong. Some
of them will be
weak. He cannot be the leader of all nations at the same
time, or even
all of the strong nations made of iron at the same time. But
he can be
the leader of the strongest nation in the end times. And he
can have the
title of leader of most of the nations in the end times, even though
they have
their own leaders. For just as the feet were separated into
iron and
clay, so will the world, into strong and weak, communist and
free. He
will be known as the leader of the “free” world.
What we also
know, is the “lawless one” will never
relinquish his power on his own, once elected by the “many”.
The
power of the lawless one will only end at the end of these seven
prophetic
years, when he is destroyed by the brilliance of the second coming the
real
Messiah. The lawless one will never turn over his power by
choice, but
only through the glorious return of Jesus Christ. This
glorious return will
be on Yom Kippur. Whether or not you believe Yom Kippur in
2015, September
23rd, is when this will happen, know that Jesus
Christ will return
at the Head of the Year, the 10th day of the 7th
month,
the most Holy day of the whole year, the Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur.
Which is why I
really don’t understand June 7,
1969. Counting backward from Yom Kippur 2017, September 30th,
seven sevens of prophetic (360-day) years one arrives at June 14, 1969,
not
June 7, 1969. Both June 7th and 14th,
1969 are
Saturdays although I also didn’t understand why counts of prophetic
years
need to start on Saturday instead of Wednesday. There is a
count of seven
sevens of days that starts on First Fruits, which for many “Christians”
is always a Sunday, which extends to Pentecost, making it also, always
a
Sunday. But this tradition extends back to “Sun Day” worship
instituted by Rome
over “Christianity” when they made it the state religion. The
Hebrew calendar continues to celebrate Pentecost (Shavuot) on Sivan 6,
regardless of the day of the week. Without this, I still
haven’t
heard a rational to applying a count starting on Saturday or Sunday,
for days,
to years.
Now, because of
the events that transpired exactly seven prophetic
years before Yom Kippur, 2015, namely the apparent revealing of the
lawless
one, to the day, there are those, myself included, that are amazed,
awed, and
afraid how God is fulfilling His word. But then the fear or
the Lord is
the beginning of wisdom.
Regarding the
timing of the Rapture. There are those
who call the 7 years preceding the return of Jesus Christ as the “Day
of
God’s Wrath” and then announce that God’s people will not suffer
God’s wrath. If both these statements were true, that would
mean that
the Rapture will happen prior to the 7 years preceding the return of
Jesus Christ.
And, of course, this would give reason to look on 2017 favorably.
There are
others who see parallels between the seven years preceding
the return of Jesus Christ and the story of Joseph and his brothers
with the seven
years of famine in Egypt.
Using this analogy, one then can ask whether Israel
was saved before the seven
years of famine started. There are many parallels between Israel
and the
Church. Remember the person named Israel,
the name given him by God,
who had been named by his earthly father as Jacob, usurper?
Ron Reese is
currently doing a series on Five Doves where he
is looking at this fall for being the season of the Rapture because it
is two years
into the final seven years. To me, one of his strongest
reasons is the
fact that the man named Israel
went through two years of famine before being saved by the one he loved
more
than any of his other sons, the son he had mourned in his death, and
now was
alive. And the one who now was saving all Of Israel and his
children.
Now
therefore be not grieved, nor angry
with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you
to
preserve life. For these two years hath the famine been in
the land: and
yet there are five years, in the which there shall neither be earing
nor
harvest. And God sent me before you to preserve you a
posterity in the
earth, and to save your lives by a great deliverance. Genesis
45:5-7
What a picture
of the Rapture!
God Bless!
Ted