I got your email from a friend prior to reading on fivedoves.  I like many others do not see us in the 7 year Tribulation. And...Ron you say the Covenant of the many was confirmed but Israel is a part of that Covenant as Daniel in his prayer to God asked concerning what would happen to Israel.  I do not see that enforcement of the Covenant yet.  I believe it is about to take place, especially since Obama, Cameron, the EU and UN are wanting it to happen. He was not aware of the Church at that time.  The Daniel passages are dealing with the Nation of Israel. 

 

Paul in his letter, specifically to the Ephesians writes of a mystery and that mystery is the Church or the Church age the Jews did not understand about.  The specific time of Jacob's trouble is once again a Jewish idiom referring to the Jewish nation. 

 

I do not see the Church in the 7 year Tribulation. 

 

Now as to whether Obama is the Antichrist or not, he makes a good candidate, but also, Cameron of England is doing the same thing.  I remember when many thought Javier Solana was the Antichrist.  And there were good arguments for that.  But he is out of office and not affecting world policy.  I will say Obama is certainly one to watch for I believe he has Assyrian blood through his tribe that was in the area during the zenith years of the Assyrian expansion.  On his mother's side, he has the Roman bloodline as well and also, I understand there is group of nomadic tribe that are laying claim to him out of Israel, that also may link him to the tribe of Dan.  We see the numeric value, but if you remember George W. Bush also has the gematric value of 666. 

 

As for what I see, is the very large birth pangs that seem evident we are about to go in the Rapture.  I see the alignment of the Ps 83 and Gog/Magog nations about to attack Israel. 

 

What I see missing is world wide famine, not just a couple of nations. I do not see yet one man leading the world.  We still have many world leaders still in place and many still think that Obama by 2012 will be out by then, unless he has enough military followers to overthrow this country.  And, that has yet to happen, and I see that quite possibly it could happen. 

 

I do not yet see a one world religious leader pointing to the a one world political leader to wonder after him yet.  I do not see a Jewish Temple built quite yet for this one to defile it. 

 

What I do see is the desire to build the Temple and all things ready to do so.  I believe there are too many of us yet still here that would not follow after the Antichrist and are still going out on the mission field.  And, I believe that in order for the world to wonder after the Antichrist we would have to be out of here. 

 

We do not see 144,00 Jews marked by God in Israel nor 2 Jewish witnesses either.  I believe that God has place "markers" in the heavens to understand times and seasons, but, if you remember not too far back when Mark Biltz was teaching about the Lunar and Solar eclipses, we were to have been gone well before now in order to conclude by 2015. 

 

I watched Steve Hadley be so eager and excited, and so was I as well to have been gone. So was J.R. Church and I am sure many others as well.  We all said, "well, I guess we're still here and maybe just didn't fully understand."

 

For me, the 70th week, Jacob's Trouble, 7 year Tribulation is a time for the Jews and judgement on an unbelieving world.  I know my previous article is missing and had all the Jewish indicators highlighted.  

 

I found the article:

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Sent: Wed, August 4, 2010 12:02:06 PM
Subject: Tribulation, whose tribulation, yours, mine, theirs or God's

Hi Doves,

 

Thought I'd get in on the Biblical Concept of the Tribulation.  

 

1.  I think we need to establish the definition of tribulation as being dished out by mankind, what we do towards each other, ie; Hitler, Nero, Stalin, and what Gov'ts are doing towards their own populations in persecuting Christians and Jews and other folk who may be in disagreement towards their Gov't and or what we do in and amongst our familys, neighbors, co-workers, church members towards each other,ect.. and  The Tribulation or 70 Weeks, Jacob's Trouble, ie; God Dealing Out HIS JUDGEMENT  on Israel and the nations, and on Satan, the AntiChrist and False Prophet and the minions of fallen angels. 

 

2.  In the course of the 70th week, Jacob's Trouble, Day of Christ,  Tribulation and then the Great Tribulation we have several things happening.   a) 7 seals, b) 7 trumpets, c) 7 bowls/vials, d) 2 Witnesses and their eventual death and resurrection,  e) 144,000 sealed Jewish witnesses,  e) Jewish Temple, f) Abomination of Desolation,  g) Confirming or Enforcement of an agreement (to which I hold that Israel is that cog in the wheel of that covenant especially since we have 2 Jewish Witness, a Jewish Temple and 144,000 Jewish folk running around witnessing for Christ/Messiah and an abomination done in the Jewish Temple), h) Wormwood, j) seas/waters turning into blood, k) wild animals turning on man, l)  bowling ball size hail, m) earthquakes, n) famines, o) Ps 83? /Gog/Magog war,, p)  pestilences, q)  final war of all nations led by Antichrist in Megiddo, q) THE MARK OF THE BEAST and the other many more events I may have not stated.

 

3.  I sat for quite sometime under the ministry of Vince Morris the former Dean of Students and professor of the Greek Dept. at Biola University, and being discipled by his wife.  I remember clearly that he taught in the scope of respected Evangelicalism that there were differing views on when the Day of Christ, (also referred to as Tribulation) began.  He said some Theologians taught that the Day of Christ began immediately following the Birth of the Church/Body of Christ.  He said that some felt the Day of Christ came later, the Canon of Scripture being formed, end of the Apostalic era, and others felt that the Day of Christ has not yet appeared and that it begins at the onset of the Confirming of the Covenant lasting 7 years. There are lots of varying viewpoints all under the umbrella of Evangelicalism.

 

Insomuch as being referred to as Day of Christ, Jacobs Trouble, ect; he felt that this specific time was an appointed time for Israel, the cog in the middle of the wheel, and the nations or ethnic groups all around our planet who are alive and present prior to that enforcment of the covenant will live through the Tribulaton/Great Tribulation.

 

If we were already in Tribulation, WHY is it that we do not see a World Leader that is truly Leading the World?   And, who is that False Prophet pointing us to worship this Antichrist?  Where are at least the 1st set of seals?  Has anyone seen Elijah or Enoch or Moses around in Israel??  Has anyone seen 144,000 Jewish men with God's mark on their heads?  Has Babylon fallen in total destruction yet?  Are the mountains falling down around the earth simitaneously???

 

As for the Red blood covering the waters around the world,  the news reports of this morning state the cap in the gulf is working and they also pronounced that a large portion of the spill has been cleared up either through the treatments done to the waters, or evaporation and clean up crews walking the beaches. (??? Hmm to me)  

 

I see birthpangs that are very large and looming and I see that all things are set in motion and needing the Confirming of the Covenant, to which there is a strong evidence that the Convenant is made with Israel and the "many".   The Olso Accords, or George Mitchell's, along with a host of others that drafted the contract with Israel,  hasn't been fully enforced at this time and it seems apparent that this has appearances that this may be that convenant, I do not know for certain.  I know that at Annapolis under GW Bush, it was this contract being fully negotiated on and that it had within its design a 7 year increment of time put in the contract and,  present at that meeting,  many nations were involved on those discussions.  Hmm.

 

I will leave the discussion of when is the timing of the Rapture alone.  I have an opinion that it is prior to the 70th week, Jacobs Trouble, Day of Christ, Tribulation/Great Tribulation as referenced, and that Israel, being the cog in the middle of the wheel during that Dispensation of Time and not the Church, Body of Christ, Bride of Christ, the rapture or catching up will occur.   Also, with all the events occurring, it just seems to me that to accomplish all of these events, it would take more than 3 1/2 years to fulfill all these events and judgements. 

 

For me, I take a Dispensational, Premillenial, Pretribulation viewpoint as you may have guessed.   I know that when we stand before our Lord, we will fully know as we are fully known.  There will not be a dim mirror of understanding in the way.  PTL!

 

May each Dove have a very blessed day.

 

Patty Hayes