Greetings to you too Dianne;

I think discussing/debating is good as long as we stay open minded and stay true to the purpose of finding the truth of God.

I will try my best to answer your questions.

-->How Seal 5 can be the start of the reign of the beast when the beast isn't
mentioned until Seal 7, Trumpet 7?

I think it is plain to see that the book of Revelation was written in such a way that it is hard for the readers to understand. I believe it was written that way for the purpose of God. If God wanted it to be easily comprehensible then he would have made it so.

God deliberately made the book of revelation that way, so that it is easy to misunderstand and develope false doctrines, for the purpose of God (God sometimes sends strong delusions), and so that only those who are given the wisdom of God will understand the book correctly, that too for the purpose of God. God does not reveal everything to one servant but only enough for the purpose given to him.

The key to understand the revelation is hidden but it can be found. If you see that key, everything will fall into place and fit with other verses in the Bible.

The key is to find and identify the same event that occurs several times in the revelation and that is the 'Return of the Christ/Rapture'.

If you see that key, then you can dissect the revelation using that key to find that Revelation is not written, start to finish, as one instance of sequential events. Rather, the same time frame repeats three times and written in such a manner that it is easy for the readers to falsely conclude that the events are different but actually they are not. (For instance, at first glance, the Judgment of Trumpets looks to be a different event from the Judgment of Bowls but they are the same event.)

The first instance of Return of the Christ/Rapture (from now on referred to as just Return & Rapture) occurs at Revelation 7:9-17 where multitude in white come out of the Great Tribulation singing hallelujah; God showed only this vision to John which is just after the Return & Rapture but not the actual spectacle of the return of the Christ and the Rapture.

Onto your question about the beast,

If the 5th seal is about the Reign of the Beast, then just as in the first instance of the same time frame which is from Revelation 6 - 11, same events should occur after the Reign of the Beast in the second instance, too.

In Revelation 13 through 14:13, we see the famous description of the Reign of the Beast. After this what do we see?

BINGO! the Return & Rapture. Rev 14:14-16 describes the event wonderfully. Jesus sits on the cloud and swings his sickle to harvest. Jesus returns on the cloud and gathers his saints from the cloud onto him. This is the Rapture.

It omitted the 6th seal but it still sequentially agrees with the first instance.

Ok now, then after the Return & Rapture, we should see God's Judgment just as in the first instance. In the first instance, after the Return & Rapture, Trumpet Judgments followed.

What do we see?

Bingo! again. Right after the Return & Rapture, 7 bowls Judgments follow.

The first instance was kind of like an overview, seal by seal.

In the second instance, the 5th seal - reign of the Beast is rendered with more detail.

The 3rd instance of Return & Rapture is the wedding banquet(which is actually what happens right after the rapture) which is after the destruction of Babylon. Compare with the second instance in which the Return & Rapture follows the fall of Babylon (Rev 14:8).

After the wedding banquet, Jesus descends down on a white horse with his army to destroy the army gathered by the Beast. If you look at the second instance at the 6th bowl, you see the river of Euphrates dry up to prepare the way for the Kings to gather at the Amargeddon to fight. So we can conclude that Jesus will descend with his army at 6th trumpet/bowl to destroy the army gathered by the Beast at the amargeddon.

Indeed, at that war Jesus captures the Beast and the False prophet and throw them into the lake of fire.

In the 3rd instance, after the wedding banquet, it jumps to the 6th Trumpet/Bowl Plague, but still in correct sequence.

So you see, all instances sequentially line up without coflicts.

Here's the breakdown of the Book of the Revelation.

1st instance: Rev 6 ~ 11

2nd instance: Rev 12 ~ 16

3rd instance: Rev 17 ~ the end

To answer your question, God deliberately omitted mentioning the beast when describing the 5th seal in the first instance, for the purpose of God. That's why you don't see it. But, if you unlock the key just as explained above, you can see that the 5th seal and Reign of the Beast are the same event.

-->And the beast can be before Seal 6? Having charted the Seals, I consider the Seals as being in sequence, never
going backward. I think the saints of the last 2000 years have gone through enough martyrdom
to qualify them as living in a "tribulation".

I think the answer to the first question should answer this question.

--> And again if Seal 1 is AFTER the Great Tribulation, why John ONLY use the term
"great tribulation" at Seal 6?

The Great Tribulation starts with the opening of Seal 1. The place where John mentions GT is when he says about the great multitude that come out of GT. John saw the vision of seal 1 through seal 6 and then he saw the multitude that come out of GT

therefore, it's obvious that Seal 1 through Seal 6 IS the Great Tribulation and then he saw the multitude that come out of that GT.

--> The message of Yeshua/YHVH still is available to people in Seal 7, Trumpet 7 = Revelation 14:6-13.

The answer to the first question should answer this question. Rev 14:6-13 is a part of the second instance. This is before the Return of the Christ which is at Rev 14:14, so the door is still open and the gospel is still proclaimed, during the Reign of the Beast.

After I discovered how to read the Revelation, (I don't know for what purpose God allowed this to me, yet) I find everything fall into place and eliminate the necessity of ignoring any verses.

And one more thing, according to your reasoning, the Tribulation of the Beast is not part of the Great Tribulation. This can't be. Refer to Book of Mathew. The Great Tribulation will be upon us when you see the Abomination of Desolation set up (by the Antichrist, Beast).

The Tribulation of the Beast is the MAIN EVENT of the Great Tribulation and what I just explained regarding how to read the Revelation confirms it.

esohn@rogers.com