Hi:
Recently I came across a post-trib site that claims a pre-trib rapture is not possible.  While I disagree on many points in an email, these questions were posed to me.  My original email to the Matt 24 question is at the bottom; however, I wondered if you have an answer to these questions he posed:

You find a separation between the Resurrection at the Second Coming and the Rapture, some time before that?
 
The gathering in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and the gathering in Matthew 24:30-31 seems to me to be very similar in description.
 
Similarities:
          Jesus is in the clouds of the sky
          At a trumpet call
          Gathering of believers
                    Dead - heaven
                    Living - earth
 
How do you know one is different from the other? Couldn't they be the same event?
 
How do you know the saints have been raptured before the Second Coming? Is there anywhere in Scripture that states that?
 
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My original email:

Your website your website questions several pre-trib authors (LaHaye, Walvoord, etc), but I find difficulty being convinced by your arguments, particularly your "correct interpretation of scripture".  For example, you note:

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all [die] sleep, but we will all be changed-- in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory" (1 Corinthians 15:51-54).
This is another wonderful description of the Rapture.  Can you tell, is the Rapture before or after the Tribulation?"

I say that it is before the tribulation.  Here is one reason why:  Much of my previous confusion revolved around Matthew 24.  However, after further study and comparison of scripture I see quite simply what is being described here...
"Immediately after the [tribulation] distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other (Matthew 24:21-31).

This is not the rapture of the church.  This is the 2nd coming of the Lord with His angels and saints (also other texts).  The saints have already been raptured.  The Lord comes to rescue the earth and the people remaining because if continued, man would destroy it all (as described in later texts).  The Lord is returning with angels because the angels need to gather the elect from all parts of the earth, as they are still in physical bodies.  There is NO MENTION of a translation, being caught up, or raptured here, but rather a gathering in preparation for a specific set of events to come--judgment.

The English phrase "caught up" translates the Greek word harpazo, which means "to seize upon with force" or "to snatch up."  The Latin translators of the Bible used the word "rapturo," the root of  the English term "Rapture."  At the Rapture, living believers will be "caught up" in the air, translated into the clouds, in a moment in time to join the Lord in the air.  However, here we see an entirely different Greek word used--gather, which means to collect or bring together.

The movement of the believer at the Rapture is from earth to heaven; at the Second Coming it is from heaven to earth. At the Rapture, the Lord comes for His saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16), while at the Second Coming the Lord comes with His saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13).

This is very clear.  We don't need to be rocket scientists to see it.

When we study other texts which describe being "caught up" or "harpazo", there are no angels involved because it is not judgment.   This gathering clearly includes both the elect and the evildoers, since the evildoers are mourning (they know judgment is coming).  The angels separate the sheep (elect) from the goats (evildoers) as described in Matthew 25:3- 46.  The saints begin preparation for ruling w/ Jesus over those still in physical bodies (elect), living under the perfect laws of Christ.

It is plain to see that Jesus coming down in judgment in Matt 24, but call us up to glory in 1 Thes.  The elect that are remaining at this time are those who will populate the earth during His millennial reign, so they all can't be raptured here.  There wouldn't be anybody left to populate the earth during the millennial reign. The evildoers are judged and bound with Satan at this time.
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Thank you,
Tim
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Hi Tim,
Take a look at this URL: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/mar2003/donnac328-1.htm
John