Re: F.M. Riley (25 Aug 2004)
"The Carcass"
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Hi, from Marilyn Agee:
Pastor Riley, one time, you told me on the phone that you would never have a computer. I'm thrilled that you now have the use of one. You sure deserve to be able to access the Internet. We can all learn more by discussing the pro and con of things while respecting the other's opinions. I have a feeling that the Lord gives understanding of different subjects to different people. If we all pool our understanding, we will all benefit.
May the Lord bless you with all good things. You will have great rewards in Heaven for your diligent study and work in spreading the word of God. Neither of us is always right, but no one is. After all, we are human. God looks at the intent. We are trying our level best to understand the Bible. It isn't easy, for the wicked would understand, "but the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).
> > When we look at the context in which Luke
17:37 is set, the passage obviously does not
mean the same thing and is not teaching the
same truth as the passage in Matthew 24:28.
The context is not the same, the words "carcass"
and "body" are not translated from the same
Greek words and they do not have the same
meaning, and it can be determined from the
context that even the time periods under
consideration are two different periods of time.
> > the word "carcass" in Matthew 24:28, and
the word "eagle" in the same passage, are
referring to the dead bodies of those killed at the
end of the Trib; Armageddon, and to the ravenous
birds which shall eat their bodies. But.....
> > The words "body" and "eagle" in Luke 17:37 in
their context are referring to the rapture of
God's people just before the Trib as clearly
predicted in Isaiah 40:31,
"But they that wait upon the Lord shall
renew their strength; they shall mount up
with wings as eagles....."
Thanks much for showing us how the words "ptoma" (translated "carcass," in Mt. 24:28) and "soma" (translated "body" in Luke 17:37) are used in the Bible. That should always be taken into consideration.
Another thing that we should take into consideration is the context, as you also mentioned.
We both can see a Rapture in Luke 17:37. You take it as the first Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture (as in Rev. 4:1). I take it as the second Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints (Rev. 7:14). I'll try to explain why I take it as the second Rapture by looking at the context.
Luke 17:22's "ONE of the DAYS (plural, i.e., two) OF THE SON OF MAN" shows me that there are at least two days of the Son of man.
To me, the first Day of the Son of Man is the first Rapture (i.e., the first "trump of God," I Thess. 4:16). It is the Pre-Trib Rapture that is as the days of Noah.
The second Day of the Son of Man is the second Rapture (i.e., "the last trump" of God, I Cor. 15:52). It is the Pre-Wrath Rapture that is as the days of Lot.
Luke 17:26 says, "as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the DAYS of the Son of man." This corresponds to Mt. 24:37-40 and the Pre-Trib Rapture. It says, "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture) of the Son of Man be...Then shall two be in the field ('The field is the world,' Mt. 13:38); the one shall be taken (i.e., be caught away from the Earth), and the other left."
Noah was floated up above the mountains, and we will meet the Lord in the air. Rain fell over a 40-day period, but no fire fell.
Luke 17:28-31 says, "Likewise (i.e., at another Rapture) also AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF LOT...But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (i.e., when the Sign of the Son of Man of Mt. 24:30 is seen in the sky). In that day (the Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets that is the Day of God's Wrath), he which shall be upon the HOUSETOP, and his stuff in the house, LET HIM NOT COME DOWN".
As I understand it, the reason he is not to come down is because he will rise up from the housetop in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. He will have no need of any earthly stuff whatsoever.
The "last trump" of God is heard at the Pre-Wrath Rapture, between the breaking of the SIXTH AND SEVENTH SEALS. In Rev. 6:12, the SIXTH SEAL is broken, and the Sun becomes dark. Verse 17 says that "the great day of his wrath is come..."The Pre-wrath Rapture is in Rev. 7. These include the 144,000 Israelites and the great multitude out of all nations (7:9). "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14).
Speaking of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, Luke 17:36,37 says, "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? (i.e., where will the one be taken?) And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (i.e., the Body of Christ) is (it's in Heaven, having been caught up to Heaven previously), thither will the eagles (i.e., Tribulation saints) be gathered together." "Sunago, translated "gathered" means to collect, convene, entertain (hospitably), and to be assembled. That fits the assembly in Heaven on the first day of Christ's millennial kingdom.
Heb. 12:22-24 sheds light on the "general assembly" in Heaven at the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It says, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN (i.e., those caught up in the first Rapture), which are written IN HEAVEN, and to God the Judge (i.e., Christ) of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect."
At the second Rapture is when I think the entire Body of Christ will be "ALL BE CHANGED" (I Cor. 15:51, i.e., actually be made immortal, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption (it's 'raised in incorruption, v. 42), and this mortal must put on immortality" (I Cor. 15:53). We have the promise of immortality now. After the change, we will have it in reality.
Having gotten that far, I asked myself, "At what point does Luke 17 match Mt. 24?" As the days of Noah is obvious, but there is more. Luke 17:22-24,26 says, "when ye (believers, i.e., foolish virgins) shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man (the first Rapture), and ye (a foolish Laodicean virgin) shall not see it (i.e., be left behind at the Pre-Trib Rapture), And they (of the Tribulation) shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them (i.e., the Beast and False Prophet). For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day (the 2nd Day of the Son of Man, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Day of the Lord that begins Christ's 1000-year reign)....And AS IT WAS in the days of Noe, SO SHALL IT BE in the days of the Son of man." Saints will be lifted up.
I compared this to Mt. 24:26-28,37. It says, "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming (i.e., coming in the air at the Pre-Wrath Rapture) of the Son of man be (i.e., on the 2nd Day of the Son of man). For wheresoever the carcase (i.e., the dead in the Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), there will the eagles (Tribulation saints) be gathered together."
> > the context proceeds from the "abomination of desolation" [which occurs at mid-trib] in Matthew 24:15 right to the end of the Trib in verse 28. What happens at the end of the Trib? Armageddon! Revelation 19:17-18 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.
True, Mt. 24:15 is Mid-Trib, but verses 27-29 are talking about the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, because "Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS shall the sun be darkened." The Sun is darkened after the SIXTH SEAL is broken in Rev. 6:12. That is not the end of the whole Tribulation. Much destruction hits Earth when the SEVENTH SEAL is broken in Rev. 8. Out of the seventh seal comes the seven trumpet judgments. Out of the seventh trumpet comes the seven vials of God's wrath.
After the Day of God's Wrath on the Feast of Trumpets, there will be 7 Jewish months of Tribulation, including Leap Year's extra month, Adar II. The Second Advent will be on the following Nisan 1. Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (on Tishri 1) and former rain (on Nisan 1) unto the earth." There are seven months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1 in a Jewish Leap Year.
Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them (i.e., those killed on the Day of God's Wrath, Eze. 38:18-20), that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."
I think Jesus will return on the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year, Regnal because he is King of kings, Sacred because he is Lord of lords and the great High Priest. He will be a priest upon his throne. Zech. 6:13 says, "Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both."
I think the vials of God's Wrath will be filled up during those 7 months. For instance, when the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 hits the Mediterranean Sea at noon (Zech. 2:3-5) on the Day of God's Wrath, "the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed." By the time of the 2nd vial, "the sea;...it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea" (Rev. 16:3).
It looks to me like the whole shortened Tribulation will last 2300 days (Dan. 8:13,14).
Agape, Marilyn
mjagee@pe.net
http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee