From: Donna Danna
To: Marilyn Agee ; John Tng
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 3:21 AM
Subject: Reply To Marilyn's Reply to Donna--CARCASE IS A DEAD BODY (MATT.24:28)
Dear Marilyn,
Later on Saturday I check my Greek Lexicon to see what it said about the word "eagles" in Matt. 24:28 & Luke 17:37 which is word #105 "aetos" in Strong's Concordance. According to my Greek Lexicon, the "eagles" in these two Bible Passages listed under "aetos" are "vultures." However, I don't see this as a problem in fitting in with Luke 17:37 which says, "wheresoever the body, thither will the eagles be gathered together." Matt. 24:30 & Mark 13:26 shows the Son of Man being seen by all the tribes on earth coming in the clouds of heaven which as you pointed out as the visible part of heaven which would also correspond with Rev.19:11-13 with Jesus appearance in heaven on a white horse, and in verse 14 the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean while Matt. 24:31 says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." And Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, form the uttermost part of the earth to the utmost part of heaven." 'Then if you go back to the scenario in Rev. 19:14 after all the armies which were in heaven that follow Jesus on a white horse, we see in verse 17 an angel standing in the sun; and "he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the Great God; that ye may eat the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great." So Jesus and his armies of saints are at that point in the visible part of heaven, and vultures and birds also fly around in the visible part of heaven. The angel is telling all these fowls in the midst of heaven to gather themselves together for this supper of the Great God. So it looks like the fowls in the midst of heaven will gather themselves together in the visible part of heaven near where Jesus and his armies are also visible in heaven. At this point in time, the beast, the kings and armies are not dead that are gathered together to make war against Jesus on his white horse and his army which are shown in Rev. 19:19. Rev. 19:20 shows us the beast and false prophet being cast alive into the a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Then finally we see in Rev. 19:21, "And the remnant were slain with the sword of him (Jesus) that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."
I guess my biggest problem was in picturing the body of Christ as being "the carcase" in Matt. 24:28 since the Pre-Tribulation Saints would all be alive in heaven; and although I know that the martyred tribulation saints will be under the altar in heaven according to Rev. 6:9-10., I normally think of a dead carcase or corpse as the physical part of the body that is in the grave or is on the ground with vultures hovering over it. So I really wasn't thinking about the collective body of the dead in Christ as being "the carcase" described in Matt. 24:28 since the rest of the body of Christ (Pre-Tribulation saints) in heaven are alive along with the fact that you see the souls of martyred saints under the altar who cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" They sound very much alive although they don't have their immortal bodies yet in this verse, and their dead bodies are not yet resurrected at this point in time. However, since the kings and army (body of men) assembled together against Jesus and his army have not yet been killed by the sword proceeding from Jesus' mouth at the time the angel tells the fowls in the midst of heaven to gather themselves together, then the kings and army as a body of men on earth assembled to war against Christ and his army must not be "the carcase" or dead body referred to in Matt. 24:28 & in Luke 17:37.
However, when Jesus told his disciples in Matt. 24 & in Luke 17 that the elect would be taken, and they asked him, Where?, at that point in time there was no "body of Christ" that was the church until after the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost when about 120 believers gathered in the upper room. When Jesus spoke the words recorded in Matt. 24 & Luke 17, Jesus hadn't yet died and been resurrected from the dead nor had he told them to take the gospel to all the nations of the world baptizing them in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit as shown in Matt. 28:19-20, Mark 16:14-18, & Luke 24:45-48. The gentiles were not referred to the elect of the Lord in the Old Testament either so I doubt very much if they were thinking at that point in time that the elect included the gentiles until after Jesus resurrection when he directs them to take the gospel to all the nations of the world. Jesus appears to them after his resurrection and at that point in time according to Luke 24:45, it says, "Then he (Jesus) opened their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And year are witnesses of these things." However, it isn't until over in Acts 13:46-47 that we see the apostle Paul turning to the gentiles to preach the gospel to them specifically. Then in Romans 8:33, Colossians 3:12, & Titus 1:1, we see the elect mentioned as being Christians, and we are told in Galatians 3:26-29, "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ, For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." But Jesus' disciples didn't know that the elect in Matt. 24:31 & Mark 13:27 that would be gathered by the angels at Christ's second coming to earth would include gentile believes until after Jesus' opened their understanding after his resurrection. And until their understanding of the scriptures were opened by him, his disciples would have thought that it was the dead Old Testament Saints as "the carcase" which when resurrected made up "the body" along with the living elect of Israel. And wheresoever "the body" was, the eagles (vultures) would be gathered together. When Jesus opened up their understanding to the scriptures after his resurrection, their understanding of "the carcase" and "the body" would have dramatically changed to include "the dead in Christ" and "the living tribulation saints."
God bless,
Donna
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Hi:
> > when Jesus told his disciples in Matt. 24 & in Luke 17 that the elect would be taken, and they asked him, Where?, at that point in time there was no "body of Christ" that was the church until after the Holy Spirit was given at Pentecost when about 120 believers gathered in the upper room.
The Body of Christ probably began to be counted from the resurrection of Jesus. That evening, Jesus, the head of the Body of Christ, came to the disciples even though the door was closed, but Thomas was not among them. John 20:22 says that Jesus "breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost." That seems to be when the New Testament saints group called the Body of Christ first began.
Thomas was added to the Body of Christ the following Sunday. After that, 3000 were added on Pentecost (Acts 2:41). It seems significant that Thomas was added to the Body of Christ 7 days after Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the other disciples. Thomas probably represents the Tribulation saints being caught up about 7 years after the main Bride group will be raptured. Thus, the Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath Raptures would be 7 years apart, less the shortening of the Great Tribulation. At this time, 5765 and 5771 seem to be the most likely years for the two Raptures.
> > I really wasn't thinking about the collective body of the dead in Christ as being "the carcase" described in Matt. 24:28 since the rest of the body of Christ (Pre-Tribulation saints) in heaven are alive
Mt. 24:27-29 says, "as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened".
All of Luke 17:28-37 applies to this same time, filling in details not mentioned in Mt. 24. At that time, the Pre-Trib Rapture that is as the days of Noah is past. It is the Pre-Wrath Rapture that will fall on the Feast of Trumpets that is the Day of God's Wrath.
Luke 17:28-37 says, "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom (representing the Pre-Wrath Rapture) it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (i.e., when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen, Mt. 24:30). In that day (Tishri 1), he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken (i.e., raptured), and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be TAKEN, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, WHERE, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is (the rest of the Body of Christ is in Heaven), thither will the eagles (high flyers, i.e., the Tribulation saints) be gathered together."
The 2nd Rapture is "the last trump" of I Cor. 15:51,52. Zech. 9:14 also speaks of this day. It says, "the LORD shall be SEEN over them (i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14), and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the LORD GOD SHALL BLOW THE TRUMPET, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south." This is the "last trump" (i.e., last Rapture) of God. It calls the Tribulation saints to "the GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written IN HEAVEN, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect" (Heb. 12:23). At that point, we "shall be CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (I Cor. 15:53).
Psa. 47:5 says, "God (YHWH of hosts, Isa. 44:6, YAHshua, Jesus) is gone up with a shout (as at the first Rapture, I Thess. 4:16), the LORD with the sound of a TRUMPET (one that HE blows, not the angels, as in the 7 trumpet judgments).
"For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall CHANGE our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Phil. 3:20,21).
> > Jesus' disciples didn't know that the elect in Matt. 24:31 & Mark 13:27 that would be gathered by the angels at Christ's second coming to earth would include gentile believes until after Jesus' opened their understanding after his resurrection.
Both Mt. 24:31 and Mark 13:27 take place 7 months BEFORE the Second Advent. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is on the Day of God's Wrath, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8 and 10 impact Earth at noon. Zeph. 2:3-5 says, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be HID (i.e., raptured) in the day of the LORD's anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast". The asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will hit the Mediterranean Sea at noon. The whole Body of Christ will be in Heaven before it hits.
Eze. 38:18-20 happens on the Day of God's Wrath. It says, "it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f), and the mountains (asteroids of Rev. 8:8 and 10) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."
The cities of the nations will be destroyed (Rev. 16:18). After that Feast of Trumpets, there will be 7 Jewish months to the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year. Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."
The last year in this sequence must be a leap year, when the Jews add a 13th month. Otherwise, there would only be 6 months between Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1. The Jewish 5771 (2010/2011) will be a Jewish leap year. Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets, will fall on Sept. 9, 2010. Nisan 1 will fall on Apr. 5, 2011. I think that Tishri 1 will be the Day of God's Wrath, and that the following Nisan 1 will be the day of the Second Advent.
Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (starts Nisan 1) and former rain (starts Tishri 1) unto the earth."
Agape, Marilyn
mjagee@pe.net
http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee