----- Original Message -----
From: Donna Danna
To: Marilyn Agee ; John Tng
Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 4:54 AM
Subject: REPLY TO MARILYN AGEE -- CARCASE IS A DEAD BODY (MATT.24:28)

Dear Marilyn,
 
I have a Greek Pocket Interlinear New Testament with Jay P. Green Sr. as its Editor which shows the Greek word "ptoma" for Matthew 24:28, and this agrees with Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible which lists the word "carcase" for Matt. 24:28 as word #4430 which can be found in the back of their Greek dictionary.  Word for word, from Strong's Greek dictionary, the meaning of#4430 "ptoma" - "from the alt. of 4098; a ruin, i.e. (spec) lifeless body, (corpse, carrion): dead body, carcase, corpse."  The Greek word #4098 is "pipto"-  "to fall (lit. & fig): fail, fall (down), light on."  I also looked up "ptoma" in A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament And Other Early Christian Literature by Walter Bauer.  It gives the meaning of "ptoma" as "that which has fallen, (dead) body, corpse, esp.of one killed by violence."  The Greek Lexicon lists Matt. 24:28 under  the Greek word "ptoma."  So we can't change the meaning of carcase in Matt. 24:28 to represent a living body of people.  Also the eagles in this verse could be literal eagles or figurative eagles which are symbolic, or they could possibly represent both meanings at the same time.  So this verse may be showing the body of dead men (carrion or carcase) who have been killed already where the eagles (the eagles as both the elect as symbolic eagles there at the scene along with actual eagles, who are gathered to feast on the dead body of men.)
 
As for Luke 17:37, the body in this verse is #4983 which is the Greek word "soma."  Strong's concordance shows the  meaning as "the body as a sound whole, used in a very wide appliation lit.or fig.: -- bodily, body, slave."  However, when I just checked my Greek Lexicon to find the meaning of the word "soma," the first definition of this word is #1. "body of a man or animal--a. dead body, corpse," and  b. "the living body."  Luke 17:37 is listed under 1a. dead body, corpse, and not under 1b. a living body.  Does your Greek Lexicon show the same thing that mine does?
 
God bless,
Donna
 
Hi:

Yes. Re: G4430, ptoma, Strong's says, "From the alternate of G4098; a ruin, that is, (specifically) lifeless body (corpse, carrion): - DEAD BODY, carcase, corpse." (emphasis mine)

Isa. 26:19,20 says, "Thy DEAD MEN SHALL LIVE, TOGETHER WITH MY DEAD BODY SHALL THEY ARISE (i,e. 1st rank of the First Resurrection, Feast of Firstfruits, 30 AD, Mt. 27:52).

"AWAKE (i.e., 2nd rank, at the Pre-Trib Rapture) AND SING (Rev. 5:9), ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, AND THE EARTH SHALL CAST OUT THE DEAD.

"COME (i.e., last rank, at the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints, Rev. 7:14), MY PEOPLE, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: HIDE thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation (i.e., the wrath of God) be overpast."

Zeph. 2:3 says, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER" (i.e., Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets).

> > "ptoma" in A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament And Other Early Christian Literature by Walter Bauer.  It gives the meaning of "ptoma" as "that which has fallen, (dead) body, corpse, esp.of one killed by violence."

> > So we can't change the meaning of carcase in Matt. 24:28 to represent a living body of people.

We don't have to. Those "killed by violence" can represent the MARTYRS very nicely. Rev. 6:9-11 says, "when he had opened the FIFTH SEAL, I saw under the altar the souls of THEM THAT WERE SLAIN for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, HOW LONG, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not JUDGE and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

At both Raptures, there is a resurrection of the dead. The Pre-Trib Rapture is the first "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16). The Pre-Wrath Rapture is the "last trump" of God (I Cor. 15:51.52). Both are ranks of the First Resurrection.

I Cor. 15:22-23 says, "as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be MADE ALIVE. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

At the 1st Rapture, Christ comes in the air BEFORE the breaking of the FIRST SEAL (Rev. 4:1; 5:9; 6:1).

At the 2nd Rapture, He comes in the air AFTER the breaking of the SIXTH SEAL. Rev. 6:12,17; 7:1,14; 8:1,2 shows the sequence.

6:12: "when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL (on the Eve of Trumpets)...lo, there was a great earthquake; and the SUN BECAME BLACK".

6:17: "For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH (Feast of Trumpets) is come (at 6 PM); and who shall be able to stand?"

7:1,14: "And after these things...These are they which came (past tense) out of great tribulation" (the shortened last half of the Tribulation).

8:1,2: "And when he had opened the SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS."

So Mt. 24:28 can emphasize the resurrection of the DEAD in Christ at the breaking of the sixth seal. For "wheresoever the carcase (dead body) is (Paradise, the abode of the saved dead, was taken to Heaven on Christ's Resurrection Day, John 20:17; Eph. 4:8), there will the eagles (Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

Luke 17:36,37 emphasizes the LIVING saints. "Two men shall be in the field; the one SHALL BE TAKEN, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, WHERE, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (soma, the Body of Christ) is (they are in Heaven), thither will the eagles (theTribulation saints of Rev. 7:1-14) be gathered together."

All the clues are not in one place. We must put like passages together to get the whole story. It can't be too plain, or the unbeliever could understand it. It must seem like foolishness to him (I Cor. 3:19). The "number of years is hidden to the oppressor" (Job 15:20) too. However, "the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).

Mark 13:22-27 says, "false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, THE SUN SHALL BE DARKENED (SIXTH SEAL), and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming IN THE CLOUDS (not touching his feet to Earth, this is the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30) with great power and glory. And then (i.e., when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect (to the general assembly in Heaven, Heb. 12:23) from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (those caught up previously, some on Resurrection Day and others at the Pre-Trib Rapture). The Pre-Wrath Rapture is 7 Jewish months before the Second Advent (Eze. 38:18-20; 39:12,13).

Agape, Marilyn Agee
 
mjagee@pe.net
http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee