Re:Lisa Taylor - "just a few more comments"

 

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2008/lisat428.htm

 

Thanks for the serious considerations that you gave concerning what I had said in my last response.  I'll first start off with a question myself.

 

What part of man do you consider immortal?

 

(Remember, we know man's body isn't immortal because we can see it decay.  So that would leave either the soul or the spirit, or maybe both.  We can't see either one.  But if you believe that Adam had a spirit that was killed by God on the day he sinned, then it can't be his spirit either, since that was killed by God.  That leaves the soul as the only part of man that can be immortal, (never dies, never can die).) 

 

Now consider:

 

And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.  Revelation 19:6

 

Why weren't they able to die?  The most logical reason is because their souls could not leave their bodies.  When the soul leaves the body a person dies.  I don't want to go beyond scripture and speculate how the soul stays inside bodies that have been physically separated from each other, say the head from the body, we just know this is what scripture records.  We can speculate that before Adam sinned the soul did not separate from the body either.

 

Now, I didn't go into, on purpose, what happens to the soul after the death of the body.  It wasn't the point of the post and it can get weird very fast with lots of theories and cause a lot of strife with everyone offering their own opinion.  I know one belief is that souls are restricted to inhabit sheol/hades, in the King James referred to as "hell".  The righteous who have accepted the righteousness of Christ are restricted to the sheol or paradise side and those who have rejected the righteousness of Christ and destined to be completely consumed later in the lake of fire, on the hades side.  The souls are not normally allowed by God to wander throughout the earth.  However, there are familiar spirits, which the Bible has a lot to say about, (7 references to "familiar spirit" and 9 references to "familiar spirits") which are similar to "guardian angels", only bad, that become familiar with people in their life and impersonate them.   There are those that believe that Christ led those in sheol up to Heaven when he died by visiting this place.  Again, Hank Hanegraaff is vehemently opposed to Christ going down to "hell". 

 

Then we get into what exactly is "time" when we are no longer in this "physical" universe.  We will have new bodies and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.  The Bible tells us that there will be no more sea.  That, I presume is because our bodies will no longer be "water" based and subject to decay.  I personally think this new heaven (sky above) and earth (ground below) will be in a completely different dimension from the one we presently occupy.

 

A very good book that I've been meaning to highly recommend to everyone is "The Shining Man with Hurt Hands" which is by Ellis H. Skolfield.  I did write a review of another of Ellis H. Skolfield's books which others on Five Doves have also read, called, "The False Prophet".  I could not recommend "The False Prophet" because for one thing it teaches the "millennium" when Christ reigns started back in the first century and the next thing on the time horizon is for this heaven and earth to pass away.  However, this should in no way discourage anyone from readin "The Shining Man with Hurt Hands."

 

Now we are told both Death, (of the body), and Hell, (which I'd take as Hades where the unrighteous souls reside), are thrown into the lake of fire. 

 

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  Revelation 20:14

 

The reason this is the second death is because the first death was the death of the body which makes this the second death, the death of the soul.  All those with only bodies and souls at this point cease to exist.  They are the ones that were not written in the Book of Life since the foundation of the world.

 

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.  Revelation 20:15

 

This verse follows the verse about death and hell being cast into the lake of fire being the second death.  While there are names never written in the first place in the book of life there are others that will not be found written in the book of life when they look for their names, even though they were originally there, because they have been blotted out.

 

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.  Revelation 3:5 

 

These are those have have received the Holy Spirit and are now eternal beings.  They will be like the fallen angels, also eternal beings, in eternal torment in the lake of fire.

 

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  Revelation 20:10

 

Lisa - Hopefully, this clarifies my thoughts on the matter in terms of the soul and spirit.  I may have various details off but my main point was that the spirit is eternal while the soul, separated from the spirit, and then the body, separated from the soul, are not.  You may continue to believe that the spirit dies in people or is dead in people and then is brought back to life through actions such as the Holy Spirit.  That seems to be the main point of disagreement.  Everything else is probably supporting arguments and details.  However, I still believe it is more Biblically based and logical that the Holy Spirit gives us a part of Himself when we first become Christians and this is the spirit which is within us and is immortal and combines with our soul to make us immortal as well.  I grew up being taught that

 

We can also have additional infillings and complete immersions in the eternal Holy Spirit after becoming Christians, even though we are leaky vessels, through seeking asking, seeking it, and also the laying on of hands.

 

 

Shalom,

Ted Porter

 

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.  Romans 8:11