Hi Anson,Thought you might like to see this picture I found of the Darfur refugee camps, you may have already saw it, little shacks everywhere. . .Picture of Darfur Refugee campAlso I wanted to point out a couple of things about your 3rd and 4th points in your post that you might find interesting. . . .There has already been alot of discussion on this board about the meaning of II Thessalonians 2:3"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction" (2 Tess 2:3) New International VersionThe translation in the New International Version above is incorrect, Marilyn Agee, among others and myself on this board have gone through great lengths to find the true meaning, for the Holy Spirit led us to ask this question and when it was answered things finally made sence in 2 Thes. chap. 2. See the studies below. . .The King James Version provides a better translation. . .
2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Version)3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition KJVIn the Greek manuscripts "falling away" uses the word apostasia apo= away and stasis=a standingwhich can have a double meaning either physically standing away from something, or mentally departing from a beleif, in the context that Paul is using it means the "falling away" of the church from the planet! For he goes on to state in vs. 6 how we now KNOW who is holding the "son of perdition" back. If you read it from the NIV, you end up you're scratching your head saying, Huh? I sure did, for you are asking, "Then who's the restrainer?"II Thes. 2:3-6 (emphasis mine)3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (rapture of the church), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? ( In I Thes. Paul talked alot about the rapture of the church and our departure from this planet)
6And now ye know what withholdeth (the church) that he might be revealed in his time.
That passage will not make any sense unless you read it like that. When Paul talks about the "falling away" he is literally talking about the DEPARTURE OF THE CHURCH FROM THE PLANETmore studies below. . .Marilyn Agee's study from the link above. . .II Thess. 2:1-3 (KJV) says, "Now we beseech you, brethren (believers), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (at the Rapture), and by our gathering together unto him (at the Rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (day of the Lord) is at hand.Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away (departure, i.e., the Rapture) first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (the Satan-possessed False Prophet).In the Introduction to the Tischendorf New Testament, it explains that "The Authorised Version, like Luther's, was made from a Greek text which Erasmus in 1516, and Robert Stephens in 1550, had formed from manuscripts of later date than the tenth century....Since the sixteenth century Greek manuscripts have been discovered of far greater antiquity than those of Erasmus and Stephens; as well as others in Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and Gothic, into which languages the sacred text was translated between the second and fourth centuries...Scholars are much divided as to the readings which most exactly convey the Word of God, but one thing is agreed upon by the majority of those who understand the subject, namely, that the oldest copies approach the original text more nearly than the later ones...."Three manuscripts undoubtedly stand at the head of all the ancient copies of the New Testament, and it is by their standard that both the early editions of the Greek text and the modern versions are to be compared and corrected....And it thus occurred to Baron Tauchnitz and myself that it would be to the interests of both piety and learning if we took the occasion of the thousandth volume of the "Tauchnitz Collection" to issue an edition of the English Authorised Version of the New Testament, which should exhibit the various departures of that Version from the three oldest and most important manuscripts"....The three manuscripts are the Vatican Codex, the Alexandrine Codex, and the Sinaitic Codex, which Tischendorf found "in 1844 and 1859 at the Convent of St. Catherine, on Mount Sinai".The Tischendorf New Testament has this note for II Thess. 2:2, "SVA the day of the Lord." That means that all three ancient codexes agree that "the day of Christ" (as in KJV) should read "the day of the Lord."As for the departure, using eSword's comparison of different versions, these translations back up the departing that is the Rapture.II Thess 2:3-13 (Geneva, 1560, prior to the KJV of 1611) says, "Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day (Day of the Lord, i.e., the Day of God's Wrath) shall not come, except there come A DEPARTING FIRST (the Rapture comes first), and that that man of sinne (the False Prophet) be disclosed (SECOND), euen the sonne of perdition, Which is an aduersarie, and exalteth him selfe against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God (Mid-Trib), shewing him selfe that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I tolde you these things? And nowe ye knowe what WITHHOLDETH that he might be REVEILED IN HIS TIME (THE TRIBULATION). For the mysterie of iniquitie doeth already worke: onely he (the Holy Spirit in believers) which nowe withholdeth, SHALL LET (Old English for hinder) ! TILL HE BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY (at the Rapture). And then (after the Rapture) shall that wicked man (the False Prophet) be reueiled, whome the Lorde shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall abolish with the brightnes of his comming, Euen him whose comming is by the effectuall working of Satan (the False Prophet will be Satan possessed), with all power, and signes, and lying wonders, And in al deceiuablenes of vnrighteousnes, among them that perish, because they receiued not the loue of the trueth, that they might be saued. And therefore God shal send them strong delusion, that they should beleeue lies, That all they might be damned which beleeued not the trueth, but had pleasure in vnrighteousnes. But we ought to giue thankes alway to God for you, brethren beloued of the Lord, because that God hath from the beginning chosen you to saluation, through sanctification of the Spirit, and the faith of trueth".2 Thess 2:3-9 (HNV) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction" (SECOND), he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS OWN SEASON (THE TRIBULATION). For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way (at the Rapture). Then the lawless one will be revea! led, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; even he whose coming is according to the working of Hasatan with all power and signs and lying wonders".
II Thess 2:3-9 (WEB) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction" (SECOND), he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? NOW YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM (THE HOLY SPIRIT IN BELIEVERS), TO THE END THAT HE MAY BE REVEALED IN HIS OWN SEASON (THE TRIBULATION). For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is ONE WHO RESTRAINS NOW, UNTIL HE IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY (AT THE RAPTURE) . Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming; even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders".
II Thess 2:3 (Wycliffe New Testament) says, "[That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but DEPARTING AWAY, or dissension, SHALL COME FIRST], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition" (SECOND). The False Prophet will be revealed at the beginning of the Seventieth Week of Daniel, when he strengthens the covenant of Dan. 9:17.
Ansonet Ungerer (23 Apr 2007)
"Night-watchers!"
Dear John and Doves,
I have a lot of dreams lately - feel led to share this one with you!!
In the dream I was speaking to my mother-inlaw who's been dead for almost 20 years. I said to her that "since you went away, everything's changed!!" We have to do NIGHTWATCHING now so that they dont steal everything we have. (The house was surrounded by small little shacks/informal settlements - like the one's in Darfur's refugee camp).
I sence that the Lord wants to tell us that:
1) the dead will rise at a time when there will be a lot of refugees - struggling to survive;
2) that He will come like a thief in the night (1Tess 5:2)
3) we'll have to do some nightwatching - like Paul said "So then, let us not be like others who are asleep, but let us be alert and self-controlled."(1 Tess 5:6)
4) The dead will be raised first at the SECOND COMING - Paul warned the church of the Thessalonians : "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction" (2 Tess 2:3)
BUT:
5) "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work: but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way" (2 Tess 2:7) (THE BRIDE AT THE RAPTURE?)
Love and Greetings in Yahshua
Anson