Sherry Vance (12 Apr 2004)
"Re: post to Gina McCray"


Hi Jim.   I tried to be as clear & concise as I could, while at the same time not trying to offend anyone, and this is because I am sensitive to the way I myself used to feel when someone would seem to attack the pre-trib rapture.  But of late I have not been able to deny certain facts and evidence....and although it looks like my credibility is shot (since I stood by the pre-trib rapture for so long), I cannot deny the change of heart & attitude toward the position I find myself in now.  The "coincidences" and details and historical analogies have surpassed the rather bland (and, as I see it now, erroneous) teaching of a pre-trib doctrine based on:

       1) "We are not destined to wrath but to obtain salvation" - well, ok, we HAVE salvation.....the wrath of God will never abide on us....once we know what God's wrath really is - eternal separation from Him.  But never anywhere does it state God's wrath is simply tribulation.....and as the reasoning goes, if we are not to suffer "God's wrath" it must mean we will not be around for the tribulation.  See what I mean?  I don't believe this anymore now that I know God's wrath will never abide on us who believe in His Son Jesus Christ....and yet we must accept what we are told that we shall have tribulation in this life - as many saints have.

       2) The so-called 7 yr. tribulation starts with the 70th Week of Daniel.  NOT TRUE!  Can't believe that when you see that Daniel's 70th Week is DETERMINED for  Israel and will not be cut short...that it will be fulfilled the same as the other 69 weeks were.....and try reconciling that with the shortening of those days.  One needs to determine "what days" will be shortened then?  Therefore, the two (tribulation and 70th Week) cannot be the SAME. One cannot be shortened and the other not, if the two are the same.

       3) The church will be removed before the 70th Week and the tribulation begins.  As I stated, it seems we are ALREADY INTO the 70th Week....and the Laodicean church is still here!  That means we have to review Rev. 3 & 4.  We always assumed the letters/warnings were sent to the churches in the first couple chapters and then at the 4th chapter where John is taken up it indicates the rapture has happened BEFORE the Lord takes the scroll and opens the seals.
       It's my understanding now, however, that John's being called to come up hither is simply HOW we are going to go at the set time.  WHY?  Because there is no multitude seen in the throne room yet.  Only the Elders are present - and I sent several posts identifying the Elders several months ago.  Marilyn argued it but when I rebutted, she would not follow up.  That's because I identifed the Elders and they were NOT "church elders" as many believed - they were the O.T. patriarchs who looked forward to redemption, not knowing WHO Christ was, but nonetheless, looking forward to BEING COMPLETE - in other words, they would NOT be complete until WE JOIN THEM!
       Anyway, at the 4th chapter there is no multitude, no Bema Judgment as yet.  That's seen much later on the "sea of glass mingled with fire" --- remember the fire that will try our works?  Well, there we are, coming out of the great tribulation, standing on the sea of glass, which reflects our works, mingled with the fire which will burn away the dross.

Anyway, as for your questions:
1.  Do you believe the 70th week and the tribulation began in September 2000?
2.  If so, can you see a mid-trib rapture, possibly imminent?

Yes - and No.  I believe the 70th Week began in Sept. 2000.  I think the Great Tribulation is about to commence.  And I think the covenant with the ac will begin at the signing of that agreement with many....whenever that may be - perhaps likely in 2005...maybe tied to the Roadmap thing.  If so, that would give enough time for a false peace to lull people into believing the ac......and then a relatively short time later (around Passover 2006) the ac would come into the power that will be granted him for a short time.  Then that ONE YEAR "flood judgment" will commence....so I guess I expect the Great (3 1/2 yr.) Tribulation to get underway like now.....very very soon.....IF the timeline holds.
       One of the things that convinced me that during this 3 1/2 yr. Great Trib, the real persecution and wrath will last during only "one year" is the analogy of Noah's Flood - when it began and ended and the details comparing it to the timeline....not to mention, Jesus himself gave us the clue to look into how it would be in "those days" - like in the days of Noah.  When we compare the flood, the "rising" of the waters, the actual deluge, the slow receding when the destruction is finally seen, and the waiting for the ark to set down and come to a rest.....and it's all within that "one-year of Noah's life" - markedly stated "Anniversary to Anniversary".  How can we escape seeing it?
       So, I guess what I am saying is I expect the Great Tribulation to manifest itself shortly - possibly with the appearance of the two witnesses.  All I really know is right now things are bleak - there is hopelessness and despair and no one can see a way out.  That's all going to change soon.
       As for a mid-trib rapture------I don't really know the timing of the rapture as compared to the timing of the events that will transpire, except to say that I see the rapture has taken place in Rev.15 - this is the point where the eternal is fixed, no one is saved after this point until the actual coming of the Lord to the earth.  All of God's witnesses at chapter 15 have been removed, and there is no deliverance to those who are left.  It is in this chapter 15:2 we see the sea of glass mingled with fire - we have been removed and our works have been judged.  Then chapter 16:17 says IT IS DONE as the vials of the wrath of God are poured out and the city of Jerusalem is divided into 3 parts and cities of the nations fall and the angels prepare to destroy "mystery Babylon."
       So, yes there will be a rapture and as far as I can tell it will be a short time before Mystery Babylon is destroyed.  But what I do know is that we are here on earth during a good part of the 70th Week, the Time of Jacob's Trouble (though we believers will be "delivered" before Jacob will be) and we will see tribulation on the earth before we see our Lord.
       Hope this clarifies where I am coming from.  I would like to send this as a follow up post since your questions were poignant.
                                           Shalom,  Sherry Vance