HELLO AND GREETINGS TO EVERYONE
 
  Post tribulation zealots often point to John 17:15 for being a part of their post trib argument.
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 JOHN 17:15
 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from evil.
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This argument isn't even close to being true as far as being used as a post tribulation Rapture doctrine.To get the full context of what the Lord Jesus is speaking on here, you have to go back and start at the very first verse of the 17th chapter; and in fact you have to go back really, and start near the end of the previous chapter in order to get the whole context. (John 16:28-33)
 
  All of the above Scripture and including John 17:1-19, has to do with the Lord Jesus speaking to only His original Disciples as a group, and it is they that He is seen Praying for in John 17:15, where He is Praying that they may not be taken out of the World, but that they may be kept from evil.
 
  And the Lord Jesus clearly separates between the "evil" in John 17:15 that He Prays that they will be kept from, as opposed to the tribulation that He said would come to them back up in John 16:33.
 
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 JOHN 16:33
 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
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And the Lord Jesus also prophesied in John 16:32, that the Disciples would be "scattered" from Him, and would leave Him all alone at the end; and this all came about.
 
  In fact, the Disciples not only scattered before the Romans came to get Him before His death, they also scattered in every direction and all over the known World after His death to spread His Gospel.In fact, most if not all the Disciples died outside the confines of Israel.And they all indeed did come into their own personal "tribulation" before they died in one way or another.All of them except one died as martyr's, and in most cases by violent and painful deaths.The only one who died a natural death was John; he being the one who was caught up the Heaven as a Rapture type, before the Great Tribulation; so that he witnessed it all from its inception, as it really got started.
 
   Now there is a message for everybody right here.
 That being that our personal tribulations, as such personal tribulation as John also faced as being a prisoner on Patmos all alone; is a different type of tribulation typing, than the "Great Tribulation" or the "Hour of Temptation" (snare) to come on all the World that John bore witness to from a distance as a non participant.
 
   But getting back to John, Chapter 17.
 Verse 15 above concerning His Prayer that they might not be removed from the World, had to do with His Disciples as already mentioned above, and it concerned the various work that they had yet to do.
 That verse had then, nor has anything now to do with anyone else but those 11 Disciples.
 In fact, the Lord Jesus does not start Praying for the believers that would follow until on down in John 17:20 and onward, and continues on right through the end of the chapter and ending with verse 26.
 
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 JOHN 17:20
  Neither pray I for these alone (Disciples), but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
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And nowhere does He mention in His Prayer from John 17:20-26, that any believer in Him be kept in the World for the "Hour of Tribulation" or the "Great Tribulation" or the "Snare" or whatever it's called; or anything close to it.
 That is because it is His desire that ALL believers could be able to miss the days of judgment and wrath.
 
   Now of course we all have faced, or will have faced our own personal life tribulation in one way or another, before we come face to face with Him.
 In fact, some of us could face the ultimate personal tribulation as in being a martyr for Him somehow, as most of the Disciple were, and as countless Christian's have down through the ages, and even today.......right now.......in many parts of the World.
 Or we may die natural deaths before the Rapture.
 And then again, we may be John types, who also faced his own personal tribulation, but was the only one who was caught up to Heaven in the Spiritual realm as a Rapture typing.
 
   There have been several Five Doves writers, and probably numerous readers as well, who have died and gone on during the past seven years.
 They've died in the natural and moved on; and not doubt had their own personal tribulations in their lives.We really don't know what our futures holds; as to whether we will be dead or alive when the Rapture does happen.
 We just assume that we will be alive; but we must also assume that we will have out own personal tribulation; unless we have had it already; or are going through it right now.
 
  But again, to teach that personal tribulation is the same as the "great tribulation", are two different things, and to use John 17:15 as post tribe doctrine is totally wrong and misleading.
 Now my guess is that some if not most of these post trib people might well be facing their own personal tribulation within the "great tribulation or "hour of temptation" that looms on the horizon, which is quite possible.
 They could get what they promote and teach; because it all gets down to be all about Faith; or the lack of it.And rightly dividing Scripture also comes into play as well.
 
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  (LUKE 21:36)
 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
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